Well when men keep hearing “don’t approach us”, we shouldn’t be shocked when men don’t approach people.
Step 1- be attractive.
- Step 1. Be courteous
- Step 2. Interact with people in general
- Step 3. Ask our the people you’re genuinely interested in, and feel you have some kind of connection with, respectfully, knowing rejection is okay
Repeat until you get a date.
Being attractive helps a lot. Obviously. But you can put effort into your appearance. More than anything your personality is the thing that will get you a date.
Having tried Tinder 12 years ago, once, around the time I became an adult, why you’d choose it over asking people out in real life is beyond me. Especially if you’re not very attractive.
The meta is all off haha
Step 2 - don’t be unattractive.
I’m at 0/2 so far are there any more steps?
Be rich
Step 3 - Repeat Step 1.
Just be funny and not a piece of shit. My wife is so gorgeous, people immediately know I have a good sense of humor and I’m supportive. I’m certainly not rich.
Granted, this is not a good approach for the apps. You need to be able to sell yourself in person. Best dating strategy in this case is making many friends, and some of them will be charmed into attraction. If I were dating, speed dating would probably be workable for this approach.
If there is one thing the internet has overwhelmingly seceded at it’s convincing people that looks are absolutely everything. A lot of people I know tend to take their dating app experience as solid evidence of their romantic inaptitude. Even when it’s all too well known they are scams designed to keep you on their platform for as long as possible.
I know that preaching about stepping up to women may feel like the same way as saying: “Just be attractive, bro.” And if it does, to that I say: Do it and practise it for the sake of it. “That looks like a nice person, let’s find out what they’re about, for no damn reason at all.”
Anyway, my two cents. And if it helps whenever you’re scared of striking up a conversation just keep in mind: “The alternative is dating apps.”
At the same time, lots of men are really shitty when they “approach” women.
“Don’t approach us” is a response to men’s behaviour, not the other way around.
So yeah don’t approach women, got it.
Very incel-y, but sure.
Or, you could take it as a statement with the subtext that it clearly has, which is “dont approach us if youre going to be an asshole.”
If you would rather stew in bitterness than adjust to the above, the first option is likely better for everyone.
I think if women meant that they would say it instead of “never approach women”
Blaming men for listening to women is some new level of crazy
So option 1 I guess.
Way to be mad at 4 billion people because you dont want to be a decent human being.
Your inability to understand nuance might be part of the problem. Having to explain every single exception spelled out literally takes too long to get the guy acting creepy away from them.
You haven’t explained anything, you just keep shitting out the same response hoping you’ll shame me into going away.
Yeah, because you’re drowning in self-pity instead of understanding that men are the problem in the vast majority of cases. You’re bitching around instead, that’s typical incel behavior.
You can go up to a woman and flirt with her - just don’t be an asshole and accept a “no” without crying or further harassing her ;) It’s really not hard. Most appreciate it.
Cry me a river. I’ve never heard a women say “don’t approach me”, but I’ve heard many say “don’t be a douche” and “stop thinking you’re a fucking victim”.
You already forgot the bear in the woods?
Apparently you already forgot their reasoning behind it. A bear is a known quantity. Humans can lie to gain your trust, then turn on you. They weren’t saying all men are bad, they were saying that meeting a stand man alone in the woods - you have no idea how this person will act.
IDK women are not scared of me. Maybe the problem is you? Maybe you’re not the victim you think you are and you’re just an ass?
These guys are forgetting that you were the only man that they would prefer over the bear.
Congratulations
Geez you incels are stupid. Between victims like you and wannabe “alpha males” who wanna jerk one another, I agree mens are now a bunch of losers who wont ever get laid.
Get ratiod incel
I thought about it and you’re right, you’re a victim. Women are bad, just don’t approach them and find other dudes likes you to hang out. Good luck.
women are not scared of me
So you’re a pathetically tiny and weak man let, or you’re just unaware of the feelings of women?
You’re not a man, you’re a victim lol. Get use to porn.
The fact that yall are still this mad about this just proves that the entire point behind the thought experiment is right.
The bear metaphor was obviously thinly veiled racism/xenophobia from the start. Lots of conservative/moderate women who are terrified of anyone who isn’t white or who is “illegal”
That’s…just no. Wtf? No.
Source: I’ve actually listened to women, in person, describe their reasoning, instead of making up my own justification for something like the incel community decided to do.
The goal was to increase fear of the “other” - which is a classic right wing tactic.
The bear meme was a conservative astroturfed campaign to push people right - which is why it appeared shortly before the 2024 US elections
This is very tinfoil hatty
It’s a complicated issue with a lot of layers. Like a depressing onion.
Men were told to stop approaching women for any reason in any situation. So we did.
Dating apps and websites have overinflated women’s egos and absolutely obliterated most mens egos. The average looking guy with a job and some normal hobbies is going to get very few matches where as most women get hundreds a day regardless of their level of employment or having hobbies. This leads to women believing they can find the millionaire bachelor if they just hold out for longer when in reality they are not the women that the millionaire bachelor is going to pick.
Most women still expect men to be chivalrous and pay on the first date, but they have no actual intention of pursuing a relationship with that guy. Unfortunately some women have learned they can get a free meal and entertainment for an evening at no cost if they just say yes to dates they have no interest in. Most guys have been burned by that as some point.
A lot of women are still playing games. Saying no because they want the man to “chase” them or “fight” for them. Most guys have stopped entertaining that behavior whatsoever but I still see so many women doing it. As men we can’t tell if that’s what you want or if you actually mean it when you say no so the majority of us will immediately stop pursuing you if you decline us. I’m 33 and women are STILL doing this. I thought it would taper off as I got farther from high school aged girls but from my experience it has not gone down in any significant way.
There are a million other reasons and nuanced details but I am tired of typing.
Myself and most men I know around my age who all did very well in the dating scene when we were younger have just completely given up on dating now. We have zero interest in putting in the time, energy and money into something that yeilds nothing in return these days.
Like most things I think this will reach a breaking point and things will shift but I’m not sure when that will be or what will push things over the edge.
Same here. Most women bring nothing to the table, so there’s no rush. I’d rather save the money and spend my time studying or playing video games
If you don’t like women, then date men. You are telling us you can’t connect to women, then you aren’t attracted to them. If you were you would connect emotionally with them. You’re probably just straight because you were told to be for so long and you made it an identity. Open your mind and think about those male friends you had you made excuses to wrestle with a little bit more just so you could feel his touch. Just give in to what you know to be true.
Listen if I was gay I would date a man so quickly. Unfortunately I just do not find men sexually attractive. Trust me.
I do like women and I do maintain platonic relationships with women
If you were you would connect emotionally with them.
wanting that emotional connection doesn’t mean the BS can get too much to put up with, but the emotional connection seeking condition on gender can be absolute, even if a any gender can provide you with orgasms.
If he was gay he wouldn’t be in this conversation at all.
Weaponized homophobia is every female narcissists favorite tool against men.
You’re being creepy.
One of my friends straight up used a guy to help her move and ditched him immediately after. It’s honestly so fucked up what otherwise very nice women think is totally fine to do. She bragged about doing this and my other friends cheered her on for it. I couldn’t even imagine being the guy in that situation, just getting treated like an exploitable slave?
This is unfortunately a very common thing that women pull. I have a lot of “handy” skills and I have had multiple women pretend to be interested in the hopes that I would fix something in their apartment for them.
I cannot fathom pretending to be interested in someone just to use them like that. It’s really quiet dehumanizing and then for so many people to cheer that behavior on is disgusting. Not really a mystery people aren’t lining up to go on dates these days.
Summary: hoe_math
Right?
My aunt admitted she did the free meal thing back in the 70s. It’s not new. This whole thing is bs. People just have whiny echo chambers now.
I never said it was a new shitty behavior from women. It’s just that more men are aware of it now. Especially since a lot of women will post about it online and while they do get to share it with their yaaas queen slay fan base men do also see those posts. They see those comments where women are bragging about how many dates they have gone on with zero intention of actually romantically engaging with the man at any point.
And to be clear I am not sitting here thinking this is a one way street. I am fully aware that men have a long history of going on dates just to get laid and then never talking to that woman again.
Both genders got shit they need to work on just like most people got shit they need to work on.
I think you’re still just seeing the noisy few and those people are not the norm. The most vocal people are not necessarily the majority. I think most people on both sides or all sides are just looking for someone they’re compatible with
So either myself and all other other single men I talk to about this all have terrible luck or there is some sort of shift that’s happened in the last ~10 years and it’s finally getting so bad that others are picking up on it.
I was in a relationship or dating in one form or another from the age of like 14 until I was ~27. Only in the last 6-7 years did it get really bad.
I think it’s a combination of a lot of things but ultimately it’s become a numbers game and most guys just don’t want to put up with the bullshit anymore. Especially in this economy many dudes are just checking out. Not only from dating but basically everything.
I’m gay but I’ve only ever been on dates where both of us paid for our own meals. I think hetero dating is just broken and they should start over
Splitting the bill on the first date is possible with the right women, but for a lot of women the second you mention it they get offended and/or ghost you. I would say ~30% are open to splitting the bill for the first date and the rest find it to be a huge turn off or they will legitimately get mad.
I have had women call me broke and tell me to delete their number when I suggest we split the first date bill before hand. I mean it weeds out the bad ones early but it still sucks.
Okay, but if it’s that big of a deal to you, wouldn’t you be happy to know you’re incompatible with that person right away over such a simple topic?
Yeah but typically that conversation comes after days of texting/calling to get to know them somewhat. It’s not like I’m gonna match with someone and immediately ask them if they are comfortable splitting the bill on the first date. Maybe I should just ask that right out of the gate to avoid wasting time. Idk.
It’s the constant lost progress that wears you down. You’re carrying the conversation and keeping it fun while half the women are dry and give short answers to everything because they are messaging back the 20 other guys who all matched with them that day. So you put in the effort to try and stand out only to find out the night before a date or when a date is first brought up that they aren’t compatible. It’s just draining on you after enough times.
Honestly though, it’s a good way to weed out that 70% with antiquated conceptions is gender norms which will probably cause problems later in the relationship anyway. If they get that offended over splitting the check in a first date, they’re probably gonna hold you to unworkable heteronormative expectations later, too.
Before I met my wife I went on paid for the bunch of people. Good percent of them wanted to pay their share. You can also discuss it prior to actually going on the date and then you don’t get surprised. Just basic communication
What stinks like shit? Oh it’s your personality.
Interesting response. I take it you must be one of those women I was referring to in part of my comment somewhere.
I take it you must be one of those women
This just icks me out. Do you believe men can’t be out off by what you said? (Not that I agree or disagree with what you said.) It just feels nasty to assume the dissent is from women specifically.
He just implied they were one of the people being complained about, so they got mad and left a mean comment. you’re reading into it too much imo.
Like the other comment said you’re reading into it a bit much.
And I would feel fairly confident that the commenter was a woman because attacking someones personality (that they don’t know at all) is typically done by women. If they don’t like something you said they tend to tell you that you have a crap personality or a tiny dick.
So I am open to being wrong about that commenter, but I would feel comfortable putting a gentlemans bet of 1 dollar that it was left by a woman.
attacking someones personality (that they don’t know at all) is typically done by women.
Miss me with this misogynistic bull shit.
You’re complaints sound like they were copy and pasted from an Andrew Tate manuscript. Most men I know who are healthy and well adjusted have a girlfriend or wife. I dont think ive dated a woman in the last 5 years who expected me to be chivalrous or wanted to “play games” with me and make me chase. My friends and I have been having amazing luck with dating recently I guess. 8 out of 9 of us are either married or in a long term relationship. And were not rich or extremely attractive lmfao. Maybe it’s because none of us are incels and don’t just wanna fuck the first thing with 2 legs to say yes. I feel like men like you can’t see anything a woman is past the vagina, like maybe if you tried to just be friendly instead of horny they would’ve opened up to you and trusted you. Instead most men act like women owe them something when they buy them a gift or a meal. My friends have paid for my food before and I didn’t get on the ground and suck them off, why should a girl be expected to do that.
45% of men 18 to 25 have never asked out a woman in person
I can’t speak for the whole 45% but some of us have heard stories from women about how that other 55% can behave. I think I’d rather wait for a lady to (never) ask me out then put someone in the position of thinking “Oh, is he gonna take it bad if I say no?”
This is it. I feel like I am inflicting myself on women. That I am a problem for them simply for existing. Why would I do something like that to someone if its as bad as we are always being told?
You’re not a burden.
This is it. I feel like I am inflicting myself on women. That I am a problem for them simply for existing.
And that attitude and thought process is exactly why you would have a hard time dating. Don’t think like that, friend.
Bachelor pride vibes.
Get out and ask some people. Plenty of women like it as long as you’re polite
Until you approach another wrong one and you get another lecture for saying hi
This shit is actually happening
So walk away from them, or handle it gracefully somehow. It’s the same as trying to make a friend. Doesn’t everyone make friends from time to time?
Interest + effort = relationship of any kind. Find the shared interest, make a little bit of effort… or don’t and the math doesn’t work. If romance doesn’t come, you’ve made a friend.
Enough negative experiences reinforce and define behavior.
This is true for any being with a nervous system.
IDK why you think every individual magically changing is something realistic.
If every individual you approach gives you a lecture you might want to check out not being around those people. Try something different.
I’ve never, ever gotten a lecture. I’ve been married for about four years, but before the pandemic I picked up 4 women in a year that led to relationships of months before I ended them when I realized there wasn’t enough there to keep me interested. Don’t get me wrong, i’ve been dumped plenty and rejected plenty. I just learned to move on from the rejection.
It’s like job hunting, it’s a numbers game and every time you try you have a chance. Every time you don’t try nothing changes.
I just can’t imagine being lectured just by approaching someone and saying hi, asking them a question that is pertinent to the scenario, and giving them a chance to speak.
You haven’t tried dating GenZ women then.
They specifically tell you not to approach women in public.
And you know good and well that asking someone on a date is nowhere close to saying hi. Stop lying to yourself to feel right it’s embarrassing XD
If you’re approaching strangers and asking them for a date and you aren’t an adonis, wealthy or otherwise instantly recognizable in a positive way, you’re gonna get some real negative responses. No one wants some rando just asking them out, but this is not new, this is why if you go to a bar you have a wing man - being solo looks creepy.
It’s true though that I wouldn’t have dated women who are 28 or younger (seems to be the oldest of gen Z.) I’m 40. Even though i’m of another generation it’s basically been a 10% chance or less to approach someone and ask them out… but again if you don’t try it never happens. Most people are in a relationship ALL the time… the best relationships i’ve found have been by making friends first in real world circumstances (board game meetups, parties, work functions/events, hiking meetups, running meetups… you name it…) and then being friendly and literally making friends with people. If you click with someone you can literally feel it, and if you like them enough then after you’re already at least friendly acquaintances you ask them to something.
If you can’t ever make friends at a meetup or event, especially one that invites strangers and often has newcomers, the problem is you.
Enough negative experiences reinforce and define behavior.
Unless you don’t let them.
IDK why you think every individual magically changing is something realistic.
To be honest, it doesn’t sound like you want to change. You are so resistant to it.
it’s just that you’re fragile and a disgrace. it’s revolting. the fascists are taking over. grow some confidence. we need heroes, not insecure little boys. you know what will get you laid real quick? bashin the fash.
Yes, fragility is disgracefvll veakness. To defeat the enemy ze men mvst be strong, zey mvst be heroes, zey must have vill to seize vhat zey vant. It vill to pover zat vill tvrn little boys into strong men. Zis is antifascism.
and you get another lecture for saying hi
I’ve never ever had that happen. And I’m old enough to have fucked your grandma when she was still young and cute.
I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but I just don’t think it’s nearly as common as Lemmy likes to believe.
My personal experience trumps your personal experience!
This is the problem. We’re all so keen to talk, and not to listen. You’re old enough to have fucked dude’s Grandma? Congratulations you lived in a different world.
Congratulations you lived in a different world.
And I’m still in this world. Dude I still date. I’m only in my 50’s. I’m not even as old as Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise.
“Polite” implies that if you’re agreeable and friendly women will understand that you’re interested in them and not just being agreeable and friendly.
I think part of the problem is that what we’re all really after is fucking, which isn’t polite at all. Being polite about it just makes you look weak and ineffective at the thing that we all say we want but can’t mention.
If any mention of sex by a man is considered inappropriate, how is a man supposed to negotiate sex?
This is a big reason why I’m engaged: We got the impolite part out of the way first.
The “sex is impolite” thing… I think that’s a lot bigger than a lot of people give credit. I grew up in a non-denominational Christian house in the deep South. The only sex education I got was abstinence only, if you have sex with someone it’s basically the same as having sex with every person that person has ever had sex with. Your penis will fall off, her vagina will fall off, and you’ll have 37 babies.
Obviously, on an intellectual level, I’ve rejected all of that. Sex is fine and normal, having multiple partners throughout your life is normal. Your penis and her vagina will be fine, as long as you’re careful. No kids if you’re careful.
Despite this, for my entire life, sex has just been a thing that you don’t talk about. You don’t ask for. You’re not a friend if you want sex, you’re a pest. But also, you can’t want sex from someone you’ve just met, then you’re a creep and a pervert. You have to be their friend first, build a relationship and then you can want sex, but remember - you’re not a friend if you want sex, so you’re just living a lie to get sex. It’s a vicious catch 22. One of the biggest driving factors in all animals - sex - and we’ve moralized it so that we both cannot seek it and must obtain it.
I’ve got a fair few female friends. Some of them I would not mind having a deeper relationship with. But there’s always the struggle. Am I just being nice to get with her? Well, I can’t do that - I’d feel like a horrible person. So let’s just be friends and ignore the feelings for too long. Let’s let her believe we’re just friends, nothing more, until I can’t ignore it, confess feelings, and - shocker - that’s not a recipe for a relationship.
We’re all products of our environment. I can recognize a lot of the factors that have led me to having the mentality that I do. Unfortunately, the environments for so many of us are just not good ones. It feels like every major force in our lives is pushing us towards isolation. The problem isn’t men, isn’t women, it’s all just fucked. The whole thing needs an overhaul.
Thanks for this because it is exactly what I’m talking about. I wasn’t raised in a Christian house, but anything that was even vaguely titillating was considered obscene. When your mom angrily throws out a Victoria’s Secret catalog calling it “disgusting” how are you supposed to feel about liking the pictures?
If someone thinks their physical attraction is disgusting, perverse, or annoying how are they supposed to negotiate a relationship?
And unfortunately, one of the only places that are consistently telling young men they AREN’T disgusting, perverse and annoying is the same place that actively makes men into annoying, perverse, disgusting people. For a lot of young men, the only consistent positive reinforcement they receive is from Tate et al. The only ones teaching men (poorly, but still) how to navigate these interpersonal relationships are the ones turning them into pests.
None of this is the individual woman’s fault. None of this is the individual man’s fault. It’s a societal failing, and the only way we’re going to fix it is as a society. Men’s problems are women’s problems, and women’s problems are men’s problems. We all shape the world we share, and we all have a duty to shape it into a better one, for everyone.
Despite this, for my entire life, sex has just been a thing that you don’t talk about.
But that’s all on YOU. I have more women friends that guy friends, and women talk about sex a lot. More so than guys in my experience.
Dude, you’re an adult. Doesn’t matter how you were raised, you are obviously smart enough to unprogram yourself from your upbringing.
I keep saying this cause it’s a take a lot of people gloss over. I haven’t dated in a while because I’m too broke to add anything else to my budget, dive bars included. Dating takes time and money, and if I get more of either, I’m using it to better my situation before thinking about dating.
In a time where real wealth is dwindling for most young men, I can imagine I’m not alone on this.
Life advice from an old’ish dude: find a girl when you are broke. She will always love you, not the money. She will also love you in hardship and she won’t care if you go for a walk or watch Netflix because it’s cheaper. :)
Men don’t want to be branded ‘creepy’ and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone. Men listened.
Man vs bear debate sealed the deal for a ton of guys
deleted by creator
It made me decide the world would be a better place without us. What right do we have to exist if we make 50% of the world so frightened just by existing?
I have every fucking right to exist.
What the fuck kind of mentality is that?
Even if true and you’re serious- it’s irrelevant anyway. You’re still a person and it’s your fundamental human right to exist.
Don’t ever let anyone tell you otherwise. Either we humans all get along together, or there shouldn’t be any humans.
What other conclusions is there? It’s better just to kill yourself on the inside and go along with the man vs bear crowd because the only other choice seems to be a nazi. It doesn’t mater what kind of person you are when your entire gender is considered dangerous.
Don’t let either horde of morons on the internet dictate what you believe and why.
I’m still a leftist and haven’t stopped being one just because dumb motherfuckers and inflammatory rhetoric exist.
This has made me wildly unpopular on places like Lemmy etc. but idgaf because I know my reasoning is sound and can back it up, so challenges to my views that are welcome that don’t employ valid reasoning are discarded. I live my life to my principles and idc about being agreeable or agreed with anymore.
and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone.
I haven’t seen this in the real world at all. lmao
Now now. Don’t blame women.
Yeah it’s not women per se, though most guys have had bad experiences. It’s also bad economics, loss of third spaces, loss of communities, excess screens, and the shifting cultural expectations that follow from these material changes.
It is hard to create real human intimacy when you interact with people primarily through profiles and media.
So much this. Between the loss of local community and third spaces, society is taking a beating.
This thread is an example of why men aren’t dating.
“I’ve had painful lived experiences and faced unbalanced and unfair expectations, so I’ve decided dating isn’t worth my time right now”
“You’re an incel”
It doesn’t really matter what you say, it’s the fact that you said it as a man that will garner disrespect from some regardless.
It’s like us men are immune to trauma and if we bring up any valid concerns or criticism, it’s either we’re incels or homosexual.
Our society and the double standards we place on ourselves as men or women is absolutely ridiculous.
It’s incel to think you believe you’re the shit and why isn’t any woman coming to you. That’s incel thought.
Dealing with depression, lack of job opportunities, isolation among men as society pushes us to keep our emotions on the backburner, etc. aren’t incels, it’s whats happening with men right now. Men have little to no support group compared to women and for that, I am envious.
As a dad:
I get weird looks when I’m with my child, am told “doing daddy duty huh” when I’m more involved than his mother, am expected to be stoic, can’t sit at the bench to waych my child play as some other individual will think I’m a creep as I’m a single dad, can’t wear dope/unique patterns due to others perception of it being “flamboyant” while women will compliment other women for what they got on.
Toxic masculinity is intertwined with incels and it’s absolutely rampant in society.
stop caring about what other people think. hard to do sometimes but worth it. wear the bright colors, watch your kids, stand up for yourself and take up your space. fuck haters and people who live in the worried thoughts inside their head.
Well said!
Oh for sure I stopped caring. I wear my crocs with an unique pattern nearly everywhere I go as an example. Just airing grievances and observations
Love your attitude. I won’t forgive your crocs. We gotta draw a line somewhere, man…
Become trans I guess, idk. Society is only getting to be worse.
“idk how to respond…fuck it cut your dick off.” Lol
Funny but accurate.
I’m glad you took it the way I meant it.
Society is only getting to be worse.
Not it’s not. Just stop doomscrolling on Lemmy all day. Actually things are pretty awesome out here in the real world!
You are kidding me, right? You know I can see the prices skyrocket, right? I can see them live.
America has gone AWOL and is selling random people to slave camps.
Russia is winning in Ukraine thanks to America’s betrayal, and European cowardice.
Europe is dumping all of it’s cash into weapons, and being veto-blocked by hungary. That’s less money going to citizens.
We might have to deal with a USA/RUSSIA alliance againast the world.
And AI is getting close to being able to improve itself, leading to the singularity replacing us all.
America has gone AWOL and is selling random people to slave camps.
What?! lol no. Just no.
And AI is getting close to being able to improve itself, leading to the singularity replacing us all.
No.
Ah, too deep into fox news to see? Paying El Salvador to fill jails with.
Don’t you understand? Progress does not care about your ideology, and it is not always good.
Nothing ever happens.
We’ll be fine. I promise.
The common denominator in all of this is the fucking internet.
We didn’t have the internet to give us opinions about men and women before. Most relationships were formed with existing social circles and friend groups. People hung out and had fun and talked to each other until they started getting frisky and then we had babies.
Now when someone wants to go get it on, they start reading the internet stories and arguments and roleplay issues, and they get tense and worried and then have no idea what to do or say when they’re in the same room with a potential partner.
We HAVE to kill off the reliance on the internet if we want people to start liking each other again, which I don’t know how to do since we’re only getting more and more locked-in to our isolated routines.
reading this thread I’m glad I’m a removed in a relationship. my spouse is the best. i got so fucking lucky.
there’s a massive epidemic of loneliness out there. the loss of the free/cheap third spaces, lockdowns, and social media have made a fucking shitstorm. I’m scared for the generations below me just starting to enter the workforce. so many kids just unable to function properly.
i can’t solve it. but I’ve been putting my devices down more and (trying) to get out more. get more sunlight and fresh air, even if i just sit outside and watch the ducks. it’s hard out there. give yourself a break, okay? eat a snack and take a walk.
the loss of the free/cheap third spaces, lockdowns, and social media
I think that the growing push towards individualism and the dismantling of any kind of reciprocal relationship network are the main cause of this. I feel like years ago people could form sincere bonds and relationships but now everything is as atomised as possible and sincere interactions have been replaced with ironic performances to try to maintain as much distance as possible, even if unconsciously.
This obviously is great for the rich and powerful, so it’s encouraged in media, pop culture, workplace regulations and organization, etc.
the dismantling of any kind of reciprocal relationship
This! I’ve been saying this for years now. “The village” that it takes to get through life in a healthy way has been completely dismantled and commodified.
You hear people who don’t know their neighbors names, or just call the cops on kids in their neighborhood cause the parents aren’t around instead of just watching out for them, or people saying they wouldn’t take their friends to the airport cause “there’s nothing in it for them”, and a million other little things.
We are social creatures, we need other people to help us out. But people seem to be uninterested in anything further than their own nose.
You hear people who don’t know their neighbors names
Why bother when I have to move every year because my rent goes up every year. How considerate of these neighbors to ensure no low income housing exists around them. Perhaps they aren’t worth knowing after all…
Its a pretty big assumption that I am not also in that position.
And not that it matters, but I’ve moved almost every year since I was about 10 years old. Sometimes multiple times a year. And I’m not going to pretend I’m besties with every single person I’ve ever lived next to but it was also beneficial to be a friendly neighbor.
People are mostly willing to help their friends.
These types of posts always get so spicy, and not in a fun way.
Yea, I’m not into these types of post’s comments either. I just wanna laugh at a chud sucking for being mega racist or sexist or something.
I assume years of collectively crying about it online has made something as simple and natural like dating seem like this unachievable task.
Not sure if it’s just me, but I feel like young people are less capable than ever to socialise. I thought I was a social pariah, but I don’t have shit on some people out there.
I think a big part of it is online dating is just how it’s done these days.
But yes, we’ve done a great job of over-complicating something as simple as human interaction.
I think so too. Online dating is just too convenient. It’s easier to arrange a date while playing video games than going into a club or other places you don’t like to begin with. I won’t lament those places dying out. Fuck them, never felt comfortable there.
But online dating should have made things easier not worse. Then again those sites aren’t free of blame too.
The problem with online dating sites is that they have the wrong incentive. They want to make money, not bring people together into lasting relationships.
In stark contrast to pubs and nightclubs
pubs and nightclubs have limited tools for deciding who can interact with who, in comparison. No idea if that makes them work any better for matchmaking though.
The difference is that pubs and nightclubs are not exclusively for people who are looking to meet other people. People go there with friends, to have a good time. Not so much with online dating sites.
There’s no third places where you can just loiter.
I was a complete social reject in middle and high school so I don’t even know how to people but I just assumed that was just me and my miserable circumstances apparently a lot of people have the same problem?
Disclaimer: I’m not 18-25.
I have a ton of women friends (more than men ATM) and have solid evidence that I am a significantly attractive man. I’m also bi so my options are a tad more broad than average.
Even with this I can say that dating is unpleasant and I have never asked for one and barely do them (women are rarely bold enough to be the initiator). It feels like a socially awkward job interview where I have to spend money I don’t have and I fucking hate job interviews.
Admittedly, I also am autistic, socially anxious, and sexually repressed (American sex culture sucks).
Admittedly, I also am autistic, socially anxious, and sexually repressed
Same here. That’s the 21st century everyman.
I am just a regular 62 year old dude and I have not had a date in 12 years and the one I had 12 years ago was a fucking nightmare. I do not miss it.
Admittedly, I also am autistic, socially anxious,
Which I think explains a LOT of Lemmy users. Even more so than Reddit users.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
Men learn this quickly.
Also that speed dating stat is totally a lie, every dating event is a sausage fest.
Most speed dating events don’t actually exist. It’s just a scam to collect money and put you on an indefinite wait list.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
I think the problem is that men don’t want to be approached in public. Or in private, for that matter. Half the joke of this is how antisocial, short-tempered, and easily discouraged men are.
Please, approach me in public. I’ll be flattered even if you’re not my type and will treat you with the utmost respect. It happened in the past.
In high school, I tried to start dating a girl by asking for her Facebook account, but she rejected me. Something that women don’t understand is that constantly doing that is demoralizing. But I think that’s part of beign a male.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
Bro, so how are we supposed to meet each other? Telepathy?
I assume the ones who say that will initiate their own relationships when they are ready.
Clearly enough women are saying this that it’s having an effect.
There are women that would like to be approached, the issue is that we can’t tell them apart. And the ones who don’t like make such a fuss of it that men are not taking the chance anymore.
It’s starting to change. It’s hardly the norm but speed dating events in New York, LA have had shortages of men.
Especially with the terrible press and stories coming from them… men are starting to just not attend.
Like what? What’s gone wrong?
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Historically only men showing up
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Only desperate people showing up
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Has anything good ever come from a speed dating event? I haven’t heard of one.
They just don’t have a great reputation in general. I went to a speed friending event once and, ugh, that was not fun.
To make matters even crazier, younger generations are also just… not even trying to hook up. Some studies are showing 45% of men age 18-25 have never even approached a woman romantically.
Not succeeded, just even tried.
Dating be incredibly fucking weird right now.
I fully understand and respect people just giving up on dating, it’s exhausting and demoralising. I also think a lot of women have unrealistic expectations of what dating will be like.
I don’t even know if it’s that.
Gen Z didn’t give up on dating, that would imply that they ever tried it to begin with.
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For me personally, it’s a combination of factors. A non zero number of my exes lost interest after a while and it damaged my ego pretty badly. Dating Apps are a string of getting ghosted with the occasional date that leads to me paying for drinks and dinner, only to get ghosted. I’ve always been a shy person and I can only handle so much failure before I don’t want to play anymore. I missed out on the high school and college dating scenes and it shows. There is one common denominator in all of my dating failures and it’s me.
Honestly, I get it’s a green text, but this is pretty easily explained. First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time. Yes times are changing, but that’s still pretty standard. Pair that with the fact that dudes usually have to make the first move (again, old gender standards) and the fact that social media adds another layer of risk of being ridiculed or making someone viral because they were ‘crimge’ or ‘gave the girl the ick’ and it’s a pretty stacked deck. Hell, point one is such a strong weigh in that it’s enough to explain all of it. People are more broke than ever, and if dating by default involves going out, well guess that date isn’t going to happen.
I recently ended a 6 year relationship. I’m not going to settle down with anyone again unless they have their own stuff going on like a career and goals. I think a lot of women expect men to manage all the finances, set goals, plan vacations and provide stability but they don’t want to do the traditional gender role stuff like cooking and cleaning or making a home. So what’s the point? Why make someone else’s life easier if they don’t do the same for you? had a son young(I was 19 when I had him) and he’s 11 now, so it’s not like I’m dreaming of starting a family. Most women bring nothing to the table. And if you’re lucky enough like me to have a good income, house, car, etc… you realize a lot of things are easier living alone.
Women want the princess treatment but don’t know how to act like a princess. Beyond that, sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be. I know I sound like a redpill incel but dating shouldn’t be a priority for anyone. What’s the rush? Don’t fall for the first thing you see, make sure they’re worth it first.
I get there’s a bit of biterness here, but speaking as an older millennial this was my experience as well. Feminism created a weird gap of women becoming strong and independent, but with some meant ‘im not going to do traditional fem, but expect you to do traditional man’ with no compromise. I ended up finding a wonderful woman and we both split everything, but it took me 20 years.
If you decide to date again, you should consider dating liberal women. The only women I have known who are like you describe are conservative(and I have met one or two who expect the princess treatment and then don’t deliver on the prince treatment!). I know conservative men who expect traditional roles, and I know conservative men who expect to split the bills and say they’ll split the housework but then the woman ends up doing all the housework anyway. The women in that situation end up feeling like you: if I’m doing the housework AND working, this is easier on my own!
In my liberal circles things seem to be a bit more evenly split, and both partners are often more independent.
It seems like you’re happy on your own though, so you’re doing the right thing by removing yourself from the dating pool! Maybe you’ll find someone independent who will be a good match naturally, but I can’t imagine a woman would want to work and split the housework with someone who has your attitude (“most women are bad and not worth having around”) so you might need to change that if you do decide to get back into dating. I can’t connect on what you mean on sex not being the best thing in the world and the literal purpose of life, but I do know my husband felt like you on that front before he met me. He thought people were just exaggerating on how good it is. Maybe, like him, you just haven’t met the right match there either? It’s not like I’m even that good in bed, if anything I’m a bit of a selfish lover. It’s just that we’re a good fit together. Good luck, man. I hope you find the right fit and realize men and women are equally selfish and equally selfless.
First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time.
Not an excuse for most Lemmy users. Most American Lemmy users make far more than the average American. I have seen Lemmy users legit bitch that they only make $80K a year. That’s more than I ever made a year in my entire working life. And I never had a problem dating.
It’s a personality issue, not a money issue.
Agreed. Cost of living and wealth inequality are getting so bad it’s breaking society. We see it everywhere and it’s weird to prioritize non economic explanations.
Although hetero dating is just total bs, speaking as a queer gal. All that old cruft is rotten and it’s gotta go
Yet again Capitalism is the issue
Is there any problem that wouldn’t be fixed with wealth redistribution?
The inequitable amount of influence the 1% gets from owning the means of production. Given time this will erode whatever wealth distribution scheme you have in place.
See the minimum wage for an example.
Nah if the total wealth of everyone is forced to be equal then their power is equal.
Assets are wealth.
The CEO or board wouldn’t own anything more of the workplace than their janitors do.
I went out on a first date with this woman recently and we just split the bill 50/50. It was a refreshing change of scenery. I think that should be standard so that nobody has any expectations on either side. As time goes on you can figure out how to allocate cash flow but first dates should never be 100% on one gender, unless one of them are rich (in my opinion at least.)
Every time I see an article like this I think who fucking cares? Like what’s going on with men? Its a generational and cultural thing its not men’s fault. Dating sucks, people get rejected in ultra harsh ways, sometimes being filmed and then posted on social media for trying to ask someone out. If I was in the age range to be dating I wouldn’t bother.
It’s a problem to have so many single, disaffected men out there
Might be a good time to downplay the importance of a relationship for a happy life then instead of trying to push the message that your life sucks if you don’t have one.
Maybe being alone works for some people, but the desire for intimate relationships is a biological drive in human beings
My point was that making people feel worse about their situation likely won’t improve the outcome. People either would be happy without a partner or they won’t and those who won’t don’t need an external push to try to find a partner and both groups might feel worse if they are publicly branded a failure for not having a partner.
Yup and it’s a problem that only becomes worse over time
The first rule of…
Dude, you’re not supposed to talk about Fight Club.
Talk about what now?
how do you know they are disaffected. Maybe they are single and just fine with it.
“Influence” numbers of Andrew Tate & Musk says otherwise. I’m also assuming a large following of those two are unhappy single men.
We all know that isn’t true
Women might care?
well then they should step up and start asking people out instead of waiting for guys to do it.
Then perhaps we should expect changes/shifts in women’s behavior to bridge the gap?
I don’t think that cultural evolution is happening - look at Bumble, which had its premise/differentiation with women making the “first move.” They eventually had to nix the feature, because…women didn’t want to make the first move; they wanted to be pursued. Meanwhile, apps in general are just a minefield of emotional rejection, while Corporate ownership drags men through the muck as long as possible to get those $$$. So most men simply stop using apps and simply wait for some kind of IRL meet-cute. And that sparingly happens in a society that has very, very few places for non-commercial social overlap.
Commercial dating apps are a failed idea. We need something better
4chan funded their own dating app. It was alright.
Like approaching women?
people get rejected in ultra harsh ways, sometimes being filmed and then posted on social media for trying to ask someone out.
Are you sure this isn’t exaggerating it a little? This may be anecdotal but I have never dealt with any such harsh rejection within my social circles (neither have my associates). What I’m trying to get at is that there may be a vocal minority that gets a lot of online attention.
Then again if thousands upon thousands of people see such a post (like on say r/Tinder) and take it as a common phenomenon it would still have the same effect.
Really the fear of it happening is enough. All you have to do is have it happen once, or know someone that it happened to, or see a video of it for that to scare you off of even trying.
That sounds like an irrational fear if you ask me. Like with fear of flying.
Maybe because they are getting advice from other men how to trick a girl into giving them sex, this why alot look to pickup artist, it involves manipulation and tricks. They got so used to it, they don’t even ask people
