Probably ninety percent of those would want to replace any relevant Democrat that made it on the ballet. Big deal. What a useless story.
Yeah, that’s the expected result for any party that isn’t a cult.
If 62% wanted to replace him with the same alternative, that would be significant.
That’s because we don’t respect dance.
Ah five! six! seven! eight!
Starting at five? That’s too progressive!
Kids these days don’t respect a one, a two , a one two three four.
Yep, but that logic takes away from the manufactured outrage that is enjoyed by so many here in this community.
What?
This is percentage of Biden voters…
The majority of people who would vote for him. Wishes there was any other option.
That’s a pretty big story
Anyone thinking about responding to this poster, please look at their post history so you know what you’re getting into with regard to ANYTHING even tangentially related to Biden.
I just had to block them. Don’t even need to see the username to know who it is. Engaging with them and even the OP here is nothing but a carnival of bad faith arguments.
True for the OP too. There’s definitely an element on some of the Lemmy communities that seems to exist only or at least primarily to push negative Biden prop (or barring that, anti-US prop in general). I checked Reddit recently for the first time in months (kind of like going to Walmart–avoid it like the plague, but sometimes you just can’t), and I was genuinely astonished at how little anti-Biden content was present by comparison.
I’m voting for Joe in November, and you should too. Joe’s administration killed non-competes, flipped the procedure for airline canceled and delayed flight refunds (i.e., pro-consumer), and pushed back the exempt employee loophole–and that’s just the news from this week. He’s an awesome president without even considering that the other side is composed entirely of criminals, Russian assets, and fascists.
That actually relieves me. Like, people going, “I won’t vote/will vote 3rd party” seem to not realize that if Biden doesn’t get in, Trump will, and he not only would push genocide MUCH more, but also WILL destroy the electoral system to stay in power and avoid jail.
Hell, Project 2025 leaking proved this
So a good reminder that the Fediverse is being echoey helps the fear some
Like, people going, “I won’t vote/will vote 3rd party” seem to not realize that if Biden doesn’t get in,
I think people saying that are well aware a 3rd party vote means a second Trump presidency. Most are saying that in bad faith. The posters posting it either have no plan to vote third party, or they’re not even US citizens (as their posts would suggest they are) and they’re not allowed to vote anyway.
Joe’s administration killed NDAs,
I don’t think you mean NDAs (Non Disclosure Agreements). I think you mean Non-compete agreements.
You are correct. I haven’t seen the two separated in years, so I tend to use NDA as a blanket term. Editing for clarity.
Yeah. Dude is a pretty well known right-wing propagandist. This is evident in the fact that they have nothing critical to say about anyone or anything on the right. They’re clearly here to spread propaganda to those that are disillusioned with the system.
A non vote for Biden from someone who would have voted for him is a clear boon to Trump.
They know this, and be they’re hoping everyone else doesn’t.
(This comment will be removed by the mods once the rest of the bots report it enough)
The above commenter is a well known Hawaiian Pizza lover, he’s the absolute worst. /s
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Stop being paranoid about the mods they’re actually pretty fucking reasonable.
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Why don’t you just respond to the article. This poster has a habit of posting controversial articles that are critical of Biden’s actions but America is a fucking democracy and we can have an adult discussion about his flaws.
Having those conversations makes it more likely people will vote for him - compared to just muzzling everyone and saying “he’s so perfect” because we can fucking see his flaws. Silencing discussion drives down voter turn out and low voter turnout is how asshole GOP folks keep getting elected. Also those anti choice church goers are going to blindly vote for the adulterer - so we need to overwhelm the idiot factor.
- I’m not paranoid about the mods. I’ve dealt with them first hand on this shit.
- Discussing flaws is one thing, flat-out suggesting people NOT vote is another.
No one is suggesting anyone stifle discussion. Nor is anyone saying he’s perfect. But doing nothing but spread ant-Biden shit is clearly one showing their true colors. If we’re going to be fair, and expect fairness in others, let’s actually be fair. And when others aren’t showing that fairness- they absolutely should be called out.
If someone wants to accuse me of being an anti-Trump liberal- and base said accusation on the results of my comment history… I’ll agree with them, because my comment history is rife with anti-Trump rhetoric.
But if another posts nothing but anti-Biden rhetoric, and their comment history shows nothing but- should we just…. Pretend there’s no agenda there?
Should we not notice? Should we not call it out?
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It’s an important fact, but hardly a major or unique case. I know I’ve personally never felt like any of the candidates in any of the elections I remember were great, just “good enough” or “better than some of the alternatives”
Looking at some recent primaries
Back in 2020, Biden only had 51.7% of the votes in the democratic primaries. That made him by far the biggest single candidate, but that also means that almost half of democrats would have probably been happy to replace them with one of the other 4 candidates if they could (though they would have disagreed on which of the 4.) Most of them would still go on to vote for biden despite him not being their first pick.
In 2016, trump won with 44.9%, again the biggest single candidate, but that means that 55.1% wanted not trump. Of course most of that majority still held their nose and voted for him in November, but the majority of them probably would have been happy to replace him at that time if they could.
2008 was really fucking close for the Democrats, Obama beat out Hillary with 48.1% of the vote to her 48%, and the remaining 3.9% voting for various other candidates, that means that the majority (51.9%) of people wanted a candidate other than Obama. Same year, McCain won his primary with 46.7%, so again the majority did not vote for him but for various other candidates.
And I think it’s pretty safe to say that in just about any election throughout history, voters would like to replace the opposing party’s candidate if they could, no surprise there.
A really big news story would be if the majority of the party not only would replace their candidate if they could, but were actually in agreement on who they would replace them with. If 6 in 10 Democrats said “We would like to replace Biden with this one specific other person that we all agreed on” then that would be big news.
Ever see a story in the sidebar, and know before clicking on it who posted it?
It’s a tone thing.
There’s a few regular article posters than either post articles with a certain tone to the headline or they editorialize the post title to fit their narrative. It’s similar to how you can notice how somebody you’re familiar with writes and uses language and can identify potential alt/sock puppet accounts from them.
Due to this I’ve come to believe that these people are astro-turfers with a disengenous agenda.
Whats a sidebar?
I’m running on mbin; it shows randomly selected stories / random communities in the sidebar (which I think Lemmy doesn’t do) with no additional details besides the title.
The Community Info. Depending on the website layout it is often displayed on the side of the screen, as a sidebar next to the main content. It usually has things like community rules. Some layouts and mobile apps refer to it as the sidebar, community description, or the community info.
Yep. Another trumper pretending to be a far-lefter.
Nice!
Sure I’d rather vote for someone with Bernie’s politics but that’s not on the table right now. I’ll happily vote for Biden over literal christo-fascism and the destruction of our democracy any fucking time.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. Lucy Parsons
Every election we will be faced with 2 shit choices, and voters are to blame for keeping it that way
So there was just a burst of 11 upvotes for this story in 10 minutes, while during the same time period there were 3 downvotes.
I wonder if the same ratio will continue during the next 10-minute window or going forward; my bet is that the ratio will more or less reverse (or more), with downvotes dominating over time. What would cause an unusual number of people to all upvote this story all at once, right after it was posted?
Maybe I am wrong. Let’s see.
Edit: I am wrong, I think. Beyond that fact that this post obviously isn’t being downvoted heavily now that it’s established, I spent a while looking at this question, and I found some things that maybe looked hinky, but nothing outwardly and obviously suspicious. And you can’t really tell anything from the behavior right after a post – it’s all noise. After about 30-60 minutes, enough votes have been accumulated that you can say something about it, but before then, all bets are off.
That’s probably just an ideological breakdown of the 15 people that browse New on Lemmy.
Honestly, just get yourself an account that allows you to see who votes and vote order, it will save you a lot of paranoia.
3 of the first 11 upvotes are people I recognise and have interacted with. It’s obviously not sockpuppets.
If the downvotes I can see, two of the first 3 are people I’ve recently interacted with as well.
I’m a non-US fediversian and I upvoted it because I thought the headline was funny and because I sympathise with Americans for having to choose between these two old men (who aren’t even Bernie Sanders, which would have been more understandable).
An admin account?
Just any kbin account will do it. The info is there in ActivityPub so sooner or later there will be a client that includes it, if there isn’t yet.
(My main’s at kbin.social but we are temporarily on read-only here at lemmy.world due to our servers going haywire, so to comment here I have to use my lemmy account).
Any good kbin/mbin apps yet?
Don’t think so, kbin’s not stable yet.
I’m a bit out of the loop though because I prefer mobile interface.
Yes, lemmy downvotes are a conspiracy to make Biden look bad.
It is well documented that many political-influence organizations have extensive social-media-fakery arms, and I’m absolutely certain that most of them have as their #1 priority from now until November to get Trump elected. And Trump is clearly a pile of elephant shit in human skin, so going after Biden for a variety of random bullshit (or just talking down the whole concept of democracy in general) is their best angle of attack.
It’s not self-evident that they’ve discovered Lemmy, but I feel confident at this point that they have. And if they have, it would be weird if they decided on posting only, that voting was a red line they didn’t want to cross.
It’s not self-evident that they’ve discovered Lemmy, but I feel confident at this point that they have.
Yes, how else can you explain the unpopularity of two pro-genocide candidates? Must be a conspiracy! Everyone loves Biden!
Biden being unpopular here would make sense. I think it’s safe to say that this is a leftist community and the Democrats aren’t all that left; I don’t know anyone on the American left who’s really happy about anyone in politics (except maybe for Bernie Sanders) even when they’re not giving aid to someone who’s actively starving and shelling children.
I say I’m confident that there’s a big shilling operation on Lemmy because the behavior of the accounts doesn’t make sense. They don’t want to talk about Ranked Choice Voting. They don’t want to talk about going to the Palestine protest. They don’t want to talk about Ralph Nader or the Green Party, except every so often as a little aside about how voting is a waste of time but it you do then at least vote IDK whatever Green Party or something.
It’s like if in 2016, instead of /r/sandersforpresident, there was /r/hondurashillary and they spent all their energy shitting on Hillary (for extremely valid reasons they would have had), and saying they weren’t planning on voting at all because all the Democrats Bernie Sanders included were just bad, as a rule, because they’re Democrats. I’ve straight-up asked some of these people, what do you think about this or that leftist issue, what can I do to help make the voting system better, and no one has an answer. The reasons not to vote for Biden are super passionate and super polished. The reasons to do anything else? Who cares. I don’t know. Let’s get back to what’s really important: Not voting for Biden. That’s what I’m here to talk about today. And, they seem genuinely not to give a shit if people don’t like them – like OP posting come rain or come shine several comically transparent anti-Biden stories, every single day, like it’s… well, like it’s his job.
Also, they slip sometimes. They say “Democrat Party.” They make little fumbles about American history that I don’t think would come from a native American. They have odd little mannerisms that you can notice if you watch them closely. IDK, maybe that gets into tinfoil hat territory, but I will say for myself that there are a bunch of particular accounts that I’m extremely convinced are part of an organized effort to influence the discourse.
It very likely could be socket puppet accounts, but also there’s occasionally a lag in federation of posts and votes. So the post could have showed up on some voter suppressionist server, the users all upvoted it, and then the votes were federated all at once.
It’s an interesting fucking article. Just because it isn’t pro-Biden doesn’t mean it isn’t news.
There is someone that posts in this community that is notorious for upvoting their own comments via alt accounts- and reporting them doesn’t nothing.
Dude is a protected asset here.
2 hours later…
What are your thoughts now?
I actually spent quite a while looking at it. Honestly, I found some things that I found a little suspicious, but nothing really all that compelling. I decided I was chasing ghosts and abandoned the analysis.
Since you asked, though, here’s what the ratio for this post looks like over time:
So, pretty much, exactly ordinary and as you’d expect it.
I mentioned some things I found a little suspicious – as an example, here’s the graph for this post which I also would have predicted to be a magnet for fake voting:
That one, to me, looks hinky. The slow dropoff after an initially elevated ratio looks like exactly what I’d expect if there was an organized effort right at the beginning to drop a bunch of fake upvotes. But… there could be a bunch of alternate explanations. It’s actually pretty difficult to get a prediction of what a “typical” post should look like, because there are a lot of variables and not a lot of data points (there aren’t that many posts that display the right combination of “controversial post” + “enough votes in total to get above the noise.”)
Like I say, I gave up the idea concluding that, on the balance, there’s at least not a strong indication that anyone is dropping fake votes in big batches.
I’ve been doing this for years and learned on Reddit what headlines get the most interactions. I’ve talked to you before about my Reddit account that I left during the API shutdown.
You can go look at my posts there too for more interaction data: https://www.reddit.com/u/return2ozma
You posted “Go vote Long Beach!” on the Long Beach reddit community around primary time, with a link to where people can find their voting place, but not anything like that on Lemmy (e.g. !longbeach@lemmy.world community)? Is that right?
I haven’t really interacted with my Lemmy sub in a minute. Recently posted a few things.
Tin foil hat! Oh no!
Maybe those 62% agree with the article?
You are a one-trick-pony with the argument in these articles. I’m going to start voting even harder now.
100 percent of return2ozma political posts are attacking Biden.
If they’re not a voter suppressionist trying to get Trump elected they’re doing a great pretending to be one.
No pro-genocide centrist cares.
Not me. Fuck Trump. Biden is a good guy and I would vote for him no matter what but I think the idea of Harris getting to be president because Biden is too old and dies is a win win. So the Biden - Harris ticket is fuck yeah from me.
I think the idea of Harris getting to be president because Biden is too old and dies is a win win
Fuck Harris
Our primary isn’t until next month, it literally means nothing.
Democratic primaries have been meaningless since 2012.
Any state after super Tuesday has no voice. I won’t vote for Biden but at this point I don’t know if I’ll just cast no vote or if there will be another option?
Maybe nobody should be president and we work on ourselves for a while. Really self-actualize
I fully agree, who in the hell would want two old coots, unless you want somebody that will be easy to control.
Geez, i expected more fighting in the comments, but everyone here’s just dunking on op and calling them a “bad actor” so I’ll start one.
Is there even a single comment about the content of the article? Some of y’all commenting on FUD and OPs contributions should take a hard look at their contribution to both this comment chain, and Lemmy in general. I hope it looks better than what i see.
Anyway, enough of how disappointed i am with you, all of you, and on to the article.
Most of the article is just polling opinions, so not a lot to see, but i thought this part was interesting:
Fewer voters also say “it really matters who wins” the 2024 presidential race compared to those that said the same at this point in the 2020 cycle. Back then, 80 percent of Trump supporters and 77 percent of Biden supporters said the race really matters — but those figures have now dropped to 70 percent each.
This is surprising. I thought most people considered this election even more important than the last!
Is there a record somewhere of “election importance”? How far back does it go? Is this 7-10% drop normal?
By the way OP. As someone often critical of Biden i too get called a russian or chinese tank sometimes, so i feel close to ya. Thanks for contentin’ and shit. here’s an upvote from me <3
I spent a good amount of time calling OP a shill in this thread without bothering to read the article. The combination of thehill.com + OP’s bias + polls aren’t really indicative of anything let alone deserving of the “multiple updates multiple times per day” conceptual weight they’re being given in OP’s posting history, led me to feel it was a better use of time to just talk about why are we talking about this again and why do we think OP posts this so much, as opposed to just obediently feeling like I’m obligated to spend time talking about it again, because OP feels like posting it again.
I mean I will say in my own defense that earlier today when for the other multiple time OP posted a whole story about how bad Biden’s doing in the polls, I engaged with that story purely on its own merits. Here’s the conversation that ensued:
- Me: It seems like this poll is polling everyone, not just likely voters, which is a relevant flaw in it
- Someone: “You should read articles before posting them” “You should also believe in science”
- Me: (Asks a question to try to Socratically teach them the point I was originally trying to make)
- Them: “What are you confused about?” (illustrates that they still don’t get the pretty straightforward point I was making)
- Me: (Asks the question again)
- Them: (Finally answers the question, seeming to get what I was saying for the first time, but effortlessly pivoting to condescending about how limiting polls to likely voters is a bad idea)
And so on. It went on from there, but the point that I’m making is that engaging with this stuff on its own merits isn’t the doorway to productive conversation it might appear to be. In my experience the shills will come out of the woodwork to make weirdly hostile bad-faith conversation with you for more or less an unlimited amount of time. I think blithely being okay with putting up with an unlimited amount of that isn’t a fair thing to ask people to do.
I think people forget how significant a moment 2020 felt.
Democrats are in for a rude awakening when the turnout plummets this cycle because normal people don’t feel like it’s the end of democracy like they do.
Thank you. For supposedly being “the most important election of our lives” a lot of people don’t want to hear the truth that Trump could win again and it’ll be Biden’s fault.
I vote Republican (apparently I’m the only one on Lemmy) and I’m part of this percentage. I don’t care for either candidate, but both sides are going to vote for their candidate, because both sides have the “anyone but him” mentality.
I understand always voting for your party. So ignoring parties. Why do you want Trump over Biden?
I’m still not sure if I want Trump over Biden, I may even vote RFK…
You should go away.
Why? This place shouldn’t be an echo chamber.
Who says it shouldn’t if the alternative is filled with dickheads?
I’m a dickhead because I’m not a liberal or a Democrat? Wow…how very “Reddit” of you.
You’re a dickhead because you side with fascists.
Don’t be daft.
"Hey everyone, we should only have ONE party in control and ONE way of thinking, and ONE way of creating laws…"sincerely, Democrats.
But, I’m the fascist right? GTFO…
You should educate yourself on what fascism is.
Also, let’s not pretend anyone said anything about having only “one party in control”.
You’re just digging your hole deeper by saying increasingly stupid things.
This seems like a good opportunity to push for voting third party.
Excellent. Which 3rd party candidate do you expect will appeal to about 50% of voters in enough states to get 270 electoral college votes?
……crickets
Better than voting for either turd we get to choose from
Nope, voting for your favorite turd is the only adult action in a general election for president. It sucks but it’s what FPTP forces on us.
