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I haven’t seen too many conservatives on Lemmy, but Bluesky is a fine example of how if you deplatform and cut off the oxygen of fascists and leave them talking to themselves, they really do fade into the background.
I also like how Lemmy has the “modlog” at the bottom. If conservatives are being treated “unfairly” you can see what got them banned and decide if the mods are being fair.
I hadn’t noticed that before! I like that feature.
Sorry conservative snowflakes, there’s no central authority to cry to when get bullied for being a scumbag.
mastodon:
Compared to Bluesky, pretty much yeah 😅
Lmao, maybe don’t make memes about things you don’t fully understand? Bluesky isn’t even the Fediverse or decentralized really— and it’s owned by venture capitalists. Mastodon, like Lemmy, is open-source, open-standard, and actually decentralized.
From the outside, this kind of response almost comes off as weird corporate propaganda. Even if that’s not the intent, it’s still a bit cringe—why take this angle?
I was on and off sending this reply as a whole, when I read this comment it put a bad taste in my mouth, and having nobody mention it, I decided I might as well send it.
While I’m glad knowledge is being provided, but, the way this was phrased looks like you are trying to gatekeep joy and quite frankly given the meme is pretty ironic.
No need to be so serious. You can make your point without insulting the meme or the OP, and you can definitly do so without laughing at the OP. I don’t think this was your intent which is why I ended up sending it anyway,
The general ideology of the meme is there, and while not 100% correct it’s understandable and carries truth(which is both platforms punish trolling). Which is honestly all the matters.
i have no ill will toward OP. but this is a post in a politics sub about conservatives leaving the privately owned business that is run by a literal nazi—i am going to be serious and let them know that bluesky is also privately owned and capitalistic. i didn’t make my response until OP called mastodon a “joke.” OP is free to respond and say they didn’t mean to take this angle or were unaware—and if they did i would apologize and take everything back.
but this isn’t about “joy.” people are dying. mkay? mkay. good talk.
deleted by creator
I like this.
I think it should be Mastodon & Lemmy though.
Bluesky isn’t even on the Fediverse. It’s private corpo.
It’s not that these groups are full of true liberals, it’s that much of the population isn’t tolerant of lies and misinformation. So it seems that “conservatives” are being targeted.
I’ve seen people be objectively correct but assholes with their delivery and get fucking blasted on here. Regardless of politics I’d youre a prick you get vibe checked.
As it should be. I’m tired of lying and “alternative facts” being the new normal.
Even correct and real facts delivered in an intentionally backhanded way can fuck off for all I care
That too. Oh! And double speak…
<nobodyAsked>I’m still unreasonably salty about getting bodied into negatives after pointing out that the fusion research coming out of the National Ignition Facility is just nuclear weapons research.
That’s what Laser Inertial Confinement is, it’s a very contained implosion bomb. Their role in the nuclear stewardship program is the first thing in their damn “about me” page. Gah.I wasn’t even (all that) rude about it, its just really hard for some people on here to accept that their understanding is flawed (myself very much included)</nobodyAsked>People bandwagon, they think it’s funny to make the number go down even if it doesn’t deserve to. Although I have come back from negative to positive.
I rather tolerate honest pricks
I’m a person who likes to learn. When I find out I was mistaken on an issue and why, I sometimes feel briefly embarrassed for being wrong, but in the end I appreciate knowing more and like to share the truth with others. I feel like I can approach people from a place of familiarity, empathy, and compassion and help them understand something they did not before.
I feel like there’s a lot of people here who share that mindset, and when we see someone intentionally trying to manipulate others by knowingly spreading disinformation, the other, less-compassionate side of us shows up to the party.
I’d absolutely rather take the embarrassment of being corrected, over the embarrassment of being wrong consistently.
Oh yeah. It’s a temporary thing, but I wasn’t going to pretend like it’s not a thing and say I’m instantly excited when someone proves me wrong without any kind of hit to my ego.
We have instinctual emotional reactions and if we pretend we’re 100% above them to the point they don’t exist it makes it harder to empathize with others.
Conservatives are often so completely full of shit it isn’t funny.
So you’re telling me that Trump didn’t actually turn on the giant spigot and single-handedly extinguish the California wildfires?!?
The moment I heard “alternative facts” I knew it was pointless to even try and entertain these people anymore.
I instituted a rule about 6mo ago as an experiment: anyone who talks to me about politics must believe the 2020 election was legitimate. If you don’t, we have nothing to discuss. The gulf between us is too wide and your rejection of reality is too terminal to treat. Ever since starting discussions with that and ending it (when they say it was stolen) with “I’m sorry I just don’t think we can have a fruitful conversation” has been unbelievable for my mental health and blood pressure.
They really are fragile folk, they need to diminish others in order to feel important and special.
also conservatives are snowflakes lmao
Projection. Look at what they accuse and see how it applies to the one saying it.
But you are important and special!
Isn’t it weird how much harder it is for them to tip the scales on Lemmy and Mastodon, platforms without algorithms designed by right-wing billionaires?
WHAT? Are you implying that the rich used the advantage of closed black box algorithms to screw with peoples opinions, motivations and emotions for the goal of enriching themselves both financially and with power‽
Preposterous!/s
Yay capitalism and oligarchy! /s
Kinda makes ya think… Maybe letting someone else filter the content you see is an inherently biased concept.
I’d rather apply my own biases to my feed, tyvm.
Bias is always present in this type of thing, the critical difference is honesty, openness, freedom to dissent (in theory and in practicality) and integrity of which big tech companies do not even possess a homeopathic amount.
Same story with trust for that matter…
There’s also the fact that the ‘left-wing’ has constant infighting… about how to help people, whereas the ‘right-wing’ are (mostly) single issue voters who don’t care what the other conservatives do so long as they get their thing. So a left-wing ‘echo chamber’ is kind of amusing when you try to imagine a Social Democrat and an Anarchist tacitly agreeing to almost anything.
Is there bias? Sure. What exactly that constitutes seems, to me at least, to be ‘I don’t think people should be in camps/have their rights removed/lose bodily autonomy, or that governments should spend more subsidizing oil and gas than all other areas.’
I agree with the spirit of the point, but I also think it is critically important to SCREAM into the air right now that actually yes we do agree on a whole lot more on the leftwing than rightwing people do amongst their lame circles of hate.
It is our vibrant arguments, passionate disagreements and loud messy divisions and categories that keep leftism from becoming an echo chamber, as you nod towards in putting it in parentheses as ‘echo chamber’. Yes this is true and necessary to point out, but also the leftwing simultaneously and not in the least bit paradoxically agrees on way more than conservatives do. Don’t mistake blind compliance with whatever dominant narrative is being broadcast at the moment (hating trans people, being afraid of an “”“”“”““immigrant crisis””“”“”“”", not believing in evolution?? (did that go out of style yet? (sorry I wrote this aside like lisp code))) for a group of people being in true agreement and solidarity.
Interview a bunch of conservatives individually and ask them basic questions about how their espoused values connect with real world policies, actions and circumstances and if you ask about ANYTHING that isn’t the hot topic right now to hate on in conservative circles you will get a random mix of complete and utter amateur speculation and shockingly silly re-imaginings of things that already exist because of problems that have already been solved (i.e. naive libertarians).
Interview a bunch of leftist individually and do the same thing and you will get basically the same damn answers every time on the important stuff.
Is healthcare a human right?
Yes
Does everybody deserve to earn a living wage?
Yes
Are all people created equal and worthy of empathy?
Yes
Does everybody deserve housing and the ability to live in a decent living situation?
Yes
Is climate change real and are humans driving it?
Yes
Do you believe in the seperation of church and state?
Yes…?
Do you condone any form of racism?
Emphatically no, never. I am an anti-racist which means also resisting structural racism not just overt racism
Are you a feminist?
Fuck off, why are you condescending me, of course I am
Is disability a weakness?
No, blind worship of strength is
Do you support LGTBQ+ people?
entirely
OF COURSE there are exceptions, but by and large do this to leftists and you will get a consistent expression of leftist ideology throughout their beliefs that agrees at a basic level (especially among younger folks) with almost every other leftist you interview, with massive exceptions in the details of course…
There are annoying and bad and toxic people on the left, yes, but let us remember we are much more effective at ensuring we are interacting on a basis of shared values, and we are much louder and much more annoying when people violate those basic values.
As a left-leaning libertarian, I think this is a really great list.
It is our vibrant arguments, passionate disagreements and loud messy divisions and categories that keep leftism from becoming an echo chamber, as you nod towards in putting it in parentheses.
Yes, I could have been more direct there absolutely. Left-wing discussions cannot become echo chambers because there’s nothing to echo other than ‘help people.’ I’m in a workers assembly, and we constantly disagree on how to make major change. We do all of it, however, while handing out gloves, socks, and toques to the unhoused. We do it while making survival packs with menstrual pads in them for unhoused women. We do it while marching in solidarity with striking workers.
I have never, ever seen a single ‘centrist’ join us in any of these things. No right-wingers, no Centrists, just Marxists, Anarcha-Feminists, Socialists, hell even a tankie once.
The issue we have is that, especially since the 80’s, ‘centrists’ (with the directions of the Right-wing) have tried to make it seem like there’s something ‘extreme’ about the Left-wing. Like there’s some sort of thing to fear, some sort of spooky hidden agenda. The reality is that they can pretend the Soviet government and it’s progroms or the CCP and it’s Uyghur massacre are somehow ‘left-wing,’ and not authoritarian and conservative. Wanting to ‘keep things as they are/have in and out groups’ is a core tenet of Conservatism, which is right-wing. The reality on the left is all of our infighting is about the hows and not the whats. Any infighting the Right has is about the what’s and not the hows. They don’t care how they pay less in taxes, they want to pay less in taxes. They don’t care how they get their religion made into law, just that it happens. They don’t care who gets deported, so long as it’s not them and ‘gets it done.’ They are complete and total amorality, with a singular objective of more for themselves.
Our issue on the left is one of organization (which, as part of an assembly, I have seen live quite a lot) and choosing a path forward. We all know we want to protect 2SLGBTQIA+ people. We all know we want to protect women, children, the unhoused. Do we work with the government, like the Social Democrats want? Do we burn it all down, and rebuild smaller communities, like the Anarchists want? Do we simply reject capitalism, build our communes, and work together there?
Unfortunately right now those are objectives in the far future. We need to survive to that point, and right now, we’re losing. The left in the US hasn’t been something a government would fear to cross since the 70’s. If it should rise up, if it should finally admit that violence is going to happen whether we want it or not, and we have to meet it with violence in return, then we will see change. If Americans follow this guide and make it impossible for Trumps fascist regime to do what they want, then we have a chance. Yet if they don’t, the rest of the world is in for an extremely bad time. We tried voting, we tried peaceful marching, we tried peaceful protests, we tried begging, pleading with them. Our children begged us to stop killing the planet and their very futures, and we refused. The social contract was broken.
What will you do, America? Will you watch yourselves go through what Germany did in the 1930’s, on the back of a climate that is going to absolutely be hell for our children, and their children? When do you stand up and refuse to watch? When do you stand up, and do offline what you do online?
I want so very much to believe you’ll fight.
I am so sad that many of us will have to die defending people who can’t defend themselves, or shouldn’t have to. I plan to die that way, whether taking a bullet for a young girl protesting for her bodily autonomy, a beating meant for an unhoused person who just wants to survive, or a baton meant for a young man in transition who just wants to be left alone. I love you all. <3
If Americans follow this guide
…did you get that from Pig Bodine?
Our issue on the left is one of organization (which, as part of an assembly, I have seen live quite a lot) and choosing a path forward. We all know we want to protect 2SLGBTQIA+ people. We all know we want to protect women, children, the unhoused. Do we work with the government, like the Social Democrats want? Do we burn it all down, and rebuild smaller communities, like the Anarchists want? Do we simply reject capitalism, build our communes, and work together there?
The answer to all of the above is yes I said yes I will Yes.
a longer answer
Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again. It seemed to me I stood by the iron gate leading to the drive, and for a while I could not enter, for the way was barred to me. There was a padlock and a chain upon the gate. I called in my dream to the lodgekeeper, and had no answer, and peering closer through the rusted spokes of the gate I saw that the lodge was uninhabited.
No smoke came from the chimney, and the little lattice windows gaped forlorn. Then, like all dreamers, I was possessed of a sudden with supernatural powers and passed like a spirit through the barrier before me. The drive wound away in front of me, twisting and turning as it had always done, but as I advanced I was aware that a change had come upon it; it was narrow and unkept, not the drive that we had known.
At first I was puzzled and did not understand, and it was only when I bent my head to avoid the low swinging branch of a tree that I realised what had happened. Nature had come into her own again and, little by little, in her stealthy, insidious way had encroached upon the drive with long, tenacious fingers. The woods, always a menace even in the past, had triumphed in the end.
They crowded, dark and uncontrolled, to the borders of the drive. The beeches with white, naked limbs leant close to one another, their branches intermingled in a strange embrace, making a vault above my head like the archway of a church. And there were other trees as well, trees that I did not recognise, squat oaks and tortured elms that straggled cheek by jowl with the beeches, and had thrust themselves out of the quiet earth, along with monster shrubs and plants, none of which I remembered.
The drive was a ribbon now, a thread of its former self, with gravel surface gone, and choked with grass and moss. The trees had thrown out low branches, making an impediment to progress; the gnarled roots looked like skeleton claws. Scattered here and again amongst this jungle growth I would recognise shrubs that had been landmarks in our time, things of culture and of grace, hydrangeas whose blue heads had been famous. No hand had checked their progress, and they had gone native now, rearing to monster height without a bloom, black and ugly as the nameless parasites that grew beside them.
To be fair, it took a huge Reddit exodus for Lemmy to stop being full-blown work camp supporting communist. I’m sure if enough to right wing trolls showed up, this place would change again too
We are fortunate then, that the upcoming generation of conservatives cannot read.
That’s a good point, but at least the views would reflect those of the majority rather than being algorithmically-manipulated as on Twitter or Facebook.
The bittersweet end of a successful movement. The public will be better off after Fediverse Eternal September.
God, imagine that… we switch to federated and the Nazis can no longer hide behind “Just asking questions” and getting the site admins to bully people.
Well the issue also is that nazis could prosper in here. If they had their own instance I fear there would be a massive delay before every single instance defederates
There are plenty of nazis already using fediverse tools, Truth.Social is just stolen Mastodon software, the reason you don’t hear about it is they are losers and nobody wants to hangout with them.
Don’t need every instance to do it in tandem tbh.
The only issue I have with this is that this fules the generalisation of politics even more. There is a lot more of a nuance in politics than just left/right or conservatives/liberals etc. You see this more in countries with more politics parties. It’s not an either or but a spectrum.
But this meme really suits the current climate of Shitter and the US politic system
If you voted for Trump you are allied with everyone who voted for Trump under one banner. The nuance is academic at that point. If you knowingly vote with nazis you’ve teamed up with Nazis. The reasoning is immaterial.
Then why have any discourse at all.
There’s no need for two-sided discourse on Nazism. It’s a settled subject.
I thought this was about conservatives.
As was established earlier in the comment chain, conservatives are openly allied with Nazis now.
A Nazi did the Nazi salute in front of every conservative in America, and not one of them repudiated him. So don’t play dumb.
Potato/Potato.
I’m not going to allow my feed to be populated by toxic hateful assholes, and I’ve reached the point of zero-tolerance for folks who try to suggest that anything of value is lost by blocking them.
Social media is NOT the entirety of human existence for most people. We have many, many opportunities in life to interact with and be exposed to people and opinions different than our own. Further, toxic assholes are toxic assholes, and although there is some heavy overlap, not everyone I disagree with gets a block, not even most. 90% of people I block I have never interacted with, I block them based on how I see them interact with others. And yeah, one whiff of maga is insta-block.
There is no argument about creating “echo chambers” that moves me. Folks who want to be down there throwing elbows with the cult of 45 and similar whackjobs are welcome to do so. When I go on social media I want to read and engage in reasonable discussion or I want to consume things that are being posted.
It’s not some kind of virtue to let trolling fascist assholes or similar shitstains to pollute the online space I make for myself when I have the tools I need to remove the taint.
Well, at the rockbottom, the only function is to shame and ostracize hateful conservatives who threaten the safety and acceptance of said community.
Hopefully it is much more than that, but even that is enough to be worthwhile.
So it’s about winning a propaganda war, not attempts at mutual understanding for you?
It is about protecting innocent people from hateful bigots, I am sorry if you can’t understand the threat they pose, but I understand it very clearly.
There can be no basis for mutual understanding with people that define their politics upon hurting other groups of people.
I look forward to having intellectual conversations with conservatives after they become too afraid and ashamed to dare to speak their hate out loud in public spaces and they go back to pretending to not have batshit crazy hateful views…
The conditions for an intellectual discussion I define quite reasonably as you are not actively espousing beliefs and realword policies that preclude the existence of safe spaces for vulnerable groups like trans kids, black people, muslims, women, immigrants of any legality or origin, and the poor in general.
safe spaces
Safe spaces with strict rules are great and necessary. Not everywhere can or should be a safe space though.
Not everywhere should be safe? Oh please do explain 🍿
Tell that to a scared trans kid, or an immigrant trying to gain a citizenship in the US and live the american dream, or tell that to a woman who has to wait until she is precisely almost dead for a lifesaving abortion.
Nowhere for these people is safe (especially since this a global trend) because conservatives support policies for the sole and explicit reason they hurt people in these categories to the point that they will hand everything away to the fifthy rich just for the privilege of knowing a trans kid is going to be denied lifesaving healthcare and acceptance.
Shame on you for talking so flippantly about safe spaces in such an atrociously cruel moment.
I spit on conservatives, their views are destroying my country at a rapid rate and it is just a disgusting ideology full of thinly veiled childish fear and hate.
People who aren’t cowards protect innocent and vulnerable people, conservatives specifically target those people because it is easy to punch down at them and get assholes to like you for it.
The only issue I have with this is that this fules the generalisation of politics even more. There is a lot more of a nuance in politics than just left/right or conservatives/liberals etc. You see this more in countries with more politics parties. It’s not an either or but a spectrum.
I think by basically beating the conservatives out of the platforms it allows for this nuance to be expressed. Allowing them to hang around with their bullshit and disinformation leaves everyone fighting to establish basic facts and sanity and makes political discussions as tiresome as those that happen on an American presidential campaign…basically DEMOCRAT BAD, WOKE BAD, REPUBLICAN DADDY GOOD, BIG STRONG REPUBLICAN DADDY FETISH.
I like that they can’t debase and pollute every political discussion here.
Your argument breaks down at “conservatism” there is no nuance to being a fascist or fascism supporter. “Oh I don’t really like how he’s racist and I don’t really like how he treats women, but I support the tax cuts” Bitch, that’s the BAIT, you’re now supporting fascism because you were baited into it with your greed.
Extremism is bad yes, but you are assuming that is everything I can vote for. Politics is a spectrum and I know the US doesn’t see it, but in the end I vote in a country where I can vote on over 100 people from like 40 different parties. Same for when I vote for the EU.
I believe that the lack of nuance is part of the problem why I think the US lacks in the compromise department. No there is no defence for extremism, but if you don’t have any good options to vote for then you choose for the one you think is the least bad.
Exactly, I only see this kind of vapid dogma in the good-ol USA
Politics is all about nuance & constant concessions
Right up until it becomes about hurting and not accepting people for no good reason and blaming the victims of the inveitable catastrophic consequences, which is one of the only ideologically consistent throughlines through modern conservatism the world over.
The actions of a few shouldn’t punish the rest. Yeah extremism is bad and that is where Nazi’s and MAGA fall under (or Geert Wilders here in NL), but that doesn’t mean that every party that has a more conservative view on the world is inherently bad.
And that is where I stand, but there are rarely parties that are centered enough in the spectrum to follow my view on the world.
Yeah so the conservative parties you support and think more highly of are VERY much about conserving the precious natural landscape we all live in right? To be ideologically consistent valuing nature and strong environmental law enforcement would have to be at the top of their list right?
I don’t support conservative parties? I am more politically right aligned, but also more progressive. Stop assuming shit about people
I am not talking about your particular politics, I am pointing out the basic, desperately fundamental contradictions modern conservatism has, the world over in many different countries and in many different contexts, between the stated values it purports to defend and pursue in politics and policy and how the impacts of those actions do far worse to violate those values, drag them through the mud and violently destabilize society while simultaneously empowering criminal thugs and grifters far more than any foreign threat or adversary could do. And what does the average person get for that betrayal of decency?
We should keep them all trapped on twitter forever.
It’s a good containment zone for the trash.
If you see someone supporting Trump tell them to go back to twitter and block them
TBH I’d rather them leave Twitter just so Twitter doesn’t make money
Twitter isn’t making money anyway
it stopped being about money a while ago, its literally a tool now, not a revenue source.
Or more accuratley, its a weapon, a weapon in the information war. being weilded by the Corpo-Oligarchs, the Fascists, the nazis, the Russian state, and whatever brain-worm is in Elon’s head on any given day. When Elon was forced to buy twitter, he obviously decided “fuck it, im going to use this to exert my will on the world then”. and then a year later, he was doing jumping jacks on stage for Trump rallies.
Fucking
Called
It
Capitalism
the idiots peddling conservatism aren’t going to pay much to twitter and the advertisers who are staying aren’t giving them a fraction of what they Used to get
They are slowly leaking into lemmy.world, my friends living in .world please try your best to hold your position there. Don’t let them break through
At this point, I think we should invite back hexbear tankies to roll over the conservatives and “centrist” in .world
I’m half joking, but there may be some truth in that.
What are you saying? That democrats are incapable of resistance against the republicans?
Yes absolutely, in the same way that soaking up water with a roll of papertowels is a useless way to stop a ship from sinking from a hole in the hull.
They attempted to infiltrate Lemmy.ca during the BC election to worship their transphobic John Rustad. Calling someone “a paid activist” for calling out the B.C. conservatives.
Lemmy.world communities for news and politics are already moderated far too strictly. Discourse is impossible because of the liberal distributions of bans there.
Your modlog shows you’ve been banned for things like genocide denial, defending genocide, misinformation, tons of violations of simple to follow civility rules….
But yeah… let’s go with strict mods. lol!
Yikes thank you for pointing that out.
They were excusing the attacks on schools, hospitals and safe zones.
And blatantly spreading misinformation.
I got banned with the cited reason genocide denial for saying that the leaders of the US Democratic Party don’t call the war in Gaza a genocide.
That was already too much discourse for the political commissars.
No… you got banned for literally denying genocide. It’s in your comments. And it’s public. So, I don’t know why you’re lying about it.
Removed by mod
Hey it isn’t nice to beat up people who only want to seriously hurt and maim you, your family and your friends.
Right? What happened to tolerance?
What happened to tolerance is quite clear, to the point that it has a name, it is called the paradox of tolerance.
I had never heard of the paradox of tolerance. TIL
Obv you have the wikipedia link, but this is a nice bite-sized overview that I keep around:
Just had to block someone that said wanting a democracy and not supporting a dictatorship was “Chasing perfection at the cost of the good”.
That’s wild given a dictatorship has the whole issue of succession, even with a perfectly benevolent leader they gonna die one day.
haha goddamn
Reminds me of a meme template.
🤣damn
But why blocking? That person does not just disappear, and if all non insane people block them, they don’t see that most disagree, but thinks all agree
People tend to feel foolish sitting in a room lecturing nobody, I don’t think you should be worried too much about this, these people crave compliance and acceptance, they cannot function without a community to vampire off of…
So much harder to manufacture consent without centralized gatekeepers
That makes me wonder, what comes after decentralized gatekeepers?
Removed by mod
You clearly lost that fight
its an ongoing battle
