“Field must be between 3 and 5000 characters long.”
it WAS between 3 & 5000 chars, but this is blocking it still??
Now I’m chopping it into pieces, to see if that’ll work, to get this feedback available for the dev…
There are a number of gotchas which seem to be missed by the author ( excellent thinker/writer, generally ) of that blog-post…
https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
Inexperienced mods points: put training-wheels information right there where they need it
As Atul Gawande noted, there are 2 categories of checklists ( book “The Checklist Manifesto”: he’s the guy who made the UN’s surgery checklist )…
- checklists for discussions-between-people/roles which have to happen
- checklists for tasks which have to happen
Knowing this, is there some set-of-checklists which new-mods can have, which takes them no more than 1.5mins to read, & which accurizes their actions, in modding?
the low-karma section, users who downvote too much…
Notice that some have 100.0% of their votes being downvotes, & another has 50.0%??
That, to me, looks like insufficient data-points for statistics to be valid on them!
1 downvote & no upvotes, is 100.0% downvotes, right?
you have to identify how many votes they have cast, in order to be competent to interpret the percentages properly , right?
Oh, this: brigading, or whatever it’s called, when a faction rampages somebody with downvotes, to get them punished, for not-groveling-to the faction who decided to rampage on 'em…
That happens.
Not just online, it happens in families, too…
It cannot be accommodated, so therefore the diversity of users who did the downvoting of the user in-question is important…
IF it’s some specific subset of users who are systematically abusing people of whatever attribute, THEN it isn’t the downvoted who are the problem, it is the down-votERS who are the problem, right?
( as people have noticed, Hitler & Trump both are using law to dismantle civil-society’s laws … this leverage is exactly what I’m talking about, but in a different context: just because a complaint has been filed, doesn’t mean that it’s the complainer who’s good…
Psychiatrist M. Scott Peck, in his book “People of the Lie”, identified that when somebody is introduced to him in his professional-capacity, as “the problem”, it is routine to note that that person is the identified patient … but to reserve-judgement until they can figure-out who’s telling the truth, see?
This is what I’m holding to be required: see not-just the apparent evidence, see the actual evidence, before judging…
Usually the apparent-evidence is going to be right-enough.
The problem is that when one is being used as a weapon by a gaslighter to harm an already-abused life, the cost of that isn’t “minor”.
Low-quality communities ( where “karma” is thrown-around like confetti ) have their karma disconnected…
Really, those communities ( the memes communities you identify, e.g. ) do provide a service, so some karma might be in order?
I’m thinking square-root of upvotes, though, or 5th-root of upvotes, or something: find out what fraction actually is fairly proportional for such communities, & let people who cheer the population up have some karma from that…
the number of people in the community would be in the equation I’d use, & so would the number of daily-participants in the community, so that if some community got HUGE, it’d get its karma-equation toned-down more … but yeah, people who bring smiles onto the lives of the depressed are doing good, as many comments from people throughout such communities, through the years, has shown…
to be continued…
PieFed is bringing back karma?
It’s an old blog post, they are indeed
Not sure how to feel about that
There are pros and cons. I guess some kind of karma will be unavoidable once we reach 100k monthly active users.
I’m fine with it being used for moderation purposes. It’s just that it won’t be good if people start doing the same thing as in Reddit again.
It should probably be hidden or capped to avoid farming
Isn’t that admin and/or mod only? It was hidden the last time I checked. It was meant strictly for administration purposes only.
See this comment https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/40870689/17602887
Karma on piefed isn’t visible to the users, only to the instance admin. So, I don’t really see the incentive to farm it the same way as on reddit. What I can see on my (and others) account is my “Attitude” or the ratio of upvotes to downvotes:
Oh ok, that’s good to hear.
I’m worried that this might be a false sense of security. Mbin can, and will, show this as “reputation points”. See for example, https://fedia.io/u/@wjs018@piefed.social - it’s public, you don’t even need to have an account there to see it.
So someone could take a look at https://fedia.io/m/piefed/_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities and check out the reputation of other commenters on this thread if they wanted to.
Likewise, one can view who upvoted or downvoted a post or comment, for example, https://fedia.io/m/piefed/_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/comment/9993522/favourites (and again don’t even need to log in to see that info)
downvoted
You can’t see downvotes
Ah, my mistake, you are right. I did not look closely enough. fedia.io’s reduce tab … isn’t a tab, it’s just text. Clicking on it doesn’t do anything. Also, it seems to lack the route to show the downvotes (e.g. https://fedia.io/m/piefed/_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/down takes one to a 404).
I had to search out actual OG kbin servers (e.g. https://bin.pol.social/ and https://kbin.spritesserver.nl/ ) to double check. So OG kbin does show the downvotes (see for example https://bin.pol.social/m/kbinMeta@kbin.social/t/11031/Hey-that-s-cool/votes/down and https://bin.pol.social/m/wiadomosci@szmer.info/t/19503/Kosiniak-Kamysz-Przez-skladke-zdrowotna-firmy-nie-moga-tworzyc-miejsc-pracy/votes/down ) - oddly though, the only examples I can find list only downvotes from users local to the instance.
Anyways, it seems then that while upvotes are public, no major instance currently shows downvotes publicly, and no major forumiverse software (forum-like software in the fediverse) supports showing it either.
Now … if you’re expecting all votes to be leaning towards privacy, then you might still end up having a problem, in particular if you’re upvoting something controversial (for example: https://fedia.io/m/politics@lemmy.world/t/1335132/Trump-overtakes-Harris-in-our-forecast/favourites ) but it’s still definitely an improvement for privacy-expecting new users.
The reputation points shown there are calculated by Mbin - PieFed instances do not share the karma score with other instances and does not show the karma score publicly in the UI to anyone except admins.
The reputation points shown there are calculated by Mbin
Yup, accurate.
PieFed instances … [do] not show the karma score publicly in the UI to anyone except admins.
Accurate.
PieFed instances do not share the karma score with other instances
Correct in the sense that the total isn’t being shared with anyone.
But upvotes and downvotes* are federated, which is something that I’m still seeing being a surprise to new users, despite it being around since when kbin was young as per https://sh.itjust.works/post/361524 (In fact just had one recently, https://lemmy.world/post/27042619/15815241 )
So we’d expect that (assuming there are no issues with federation) the mbin reputation score would include any upvotes or downvotes made by piefed.social users, for example. So on this thread itself, we can see who upvoted it, https://fedia.io/m/piefed/_meta@piefed.social/t/1970895/comments-on-the-points-in-https-join-piefed-social-2024-06-22-piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/favourites and that one of the upvotes is from a piefed user
- Unless one is on a piefed instance that has private voting enabled, https://lemmy.ca/post/27303908
Ah. I’ve fixed that now, thanks for letting me know.
Ah, I just saw https://codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi/commit/e71f4dbb92f63f3da285707cfb418d115a4de226#diff-e919f1e867cfa561970ba9549250f4d5bb90bcf6
That’s pretty cool - amazed also at how quickly you’re able to get to these improvements. Keep up the good work!
I agree, this doesn’t belong in the fediverse
We will still need more capable moderation tools once we reach 75k or 100k monthly active users
How does piefed have 75-100k users or does karma have anything to do with moderation
Another use case is prevent DMs from very young accounts, that could help with the Nicole spam
Karma allows to filter bad actors from posting/commenting in communities.
An alternative measure is “Attitude”, which has been posted in another comment
Continued: the “between 3 & 5000 characters” statement is false:
it has to be shorter than some other arbitrary amount, or it won’t post.
The new-account icon might be better in-place for 1/2-month?
( rather than a mere week … it takes awhile for a person’s unconscious-mind to do its normal thing, & novelty jams that, so the warning might want to match the natural unconscious-mind-cycle? )
“Automatically delete content based on phrases in user name”
Here’s the one which got my goat…
88 is a Buddhist-culture thing.
You know how prices end in .99 in North America?
Go look at images of markets in Buddhist cultures, & you’re going to see $x.88 instead.
( …sigh… I don’t know if it is search-engines eradicating “88” because of the white-supremacists’ identification with it, so now the ASIAN evidence is disappeared, XOR if the Buddhist culture has been eradicated from Asian pricing??
Either way, I looked, & couldn’t find any evidence of it, even though 3 decades ago, in Chinatown, it was absolutely normal to see prices ending in $something.88 instead of $something.99
8 is the completeness number in Buddhism, see?
Whatever.
Further, since I remembered why the White-supremacists think “88” is a validation-symbol for them, I’m linking to the Wikipedia Swastika ( that name is Sanskrit, btw ), which is an ancient Hindu, Buddhist, Hopi, & Navaho symbol, simply because it is the shape marked around the North Pole, by the Big Dipper, in the 2 solstices & 2 equinoxen.
You can see from the Wikipedia page that the nazis stole other-people’s symbol, & White-culture generally is adamant that all other people’s Swastika is nonvalid because only the White nazis count.
( this low-key racism is actually pervasive: when I shaved my head, last century, I was automatically assumed to be nazi, not Buddhist, for doing-so, but the Buddhist skinheads had been going-bald & meditating for millenia … but they don’t count, because they’re yellow or brown, or something?? the whole “only White history counts” grates on history’s blood, I tell you… )
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
In my religion it symbolizes the equanymity of G-D/OceanOfAllAwakeSouls.
So, that bit in the blog-article is assuming that all meanings are White-culture meanings, so every symbol is only gauged according to White history…
that’s a gotcha I’m asking people to not presume to be Universal, or Universally-valid.
Yes, among White culture, White symbols are pervasive, but the narcissism of presuming that other-cultures aren’t valid, because they aren’t White … is not proper, you know?
The list of sites which cannot be linked-to, because they’re disinformation … oughtnt that be openly-published?
( same as the “dirty dozen” disinformation-pushers that The Guardian identified, a few months back )
Actually, given how ideology uses “it’s banned, which proves it’s true, because they’re suppressing us” … ideological pseudo-logic …
it’d probably be strategically-stronger to identify every last one of them, & give, say 4, examples of each of their violation of truth, & have that set-of-evidences shares throughout the Fediverse ( do the work 1 time, everybody benefits from it, if it’s done right )
the blog-post ended there, so that’s it, for this commentary…
1 “random” bug in PieFed is the use of too-similar colors for vote-arrows & voted-on-arrow: green & blue, in dark mode, simply are not different-enough to reliably see the difference, for me, & I’m not colorblind ( font-size has to do with it, too, obviously: too-few-pixels to see significant difference … )
For the truly-color-blind, though, there needs to be striking difference-in-brightness between the 2, or an underline under the voted-one, or something…
Gratitude for the work of PieFed, & for the work that went into the systems identified in that blog-post, & into the blog-post itself!
I’m only wishing that humankind’s infrastructure were capable, available, rigorously-correct ( multiculturally-so, not just USA-centric, as the Internet is pushed to be, by Western tech ), & as completely enabling of humanity’s LivingWorth & LivingPotential as possible, while suppressing the narcissism/machiavellianism/sociopathy/nihilism/sadism/etc now taking its gloves off, re ruling our world ( “Dark Triad” is the root of what I identified, there, but there are more dimensions than the psychology-profession allows to be dimensions-of-human-evil. Evidence, not institutional-consensus is the best guide : )
Salut, Namaste, & Kaizen,
_ /\ _
Thank you for all your feedback, very interesting. Lots to think about.
I will certainly look into the post length.
( :
_ /\ _
Oh, 1 other point, discovered in trying to post this as a single-post, & being blocked by the PieFed coding…
On the instance I want to run, I’m going to be doing really long articles, so having a character-limit of 4000 or something won’t work.
Please code PieFed so that the instance-admin is offered your default, but is allowed to set a max-character-limit for posts of whatever they want, like 16k, or 32k, or 64k+ chars, if required, for that instance,
instead of having to find the places in the source-code to have to change, & hope they caught all the locations, without understanding the code ( I’m not a programmer … yet … someday … : )
_ /\ _
Ok.
Posts are now limited to 50k, comments to 10k. Same as Lemmy.
Enjoy!
I’ve seen something similar, where someone on lemmy left a very long (certainly more than 5000 characters) comment as a reply to mine, and it never federated to me. It could have just been a one-off glitch but it made me wonder if there’s a length limit to federation as well…
My Mastodon account has a 12,000 character per item limit.
It seems to be the server-code, not the protocol…
_ /\ _
Hmm, that’s a bit concerning if too long posts don’t federate because of a server-side limit. I mean, ok don’t federate a 100TB post and destroy my instance by eating up all the disk space, but if an instance admin wants to support the 12k character limit that Mastodon has, that should be an option that the admin has access to configure.