probablyaCat

Sealioning. I haven’t heard of this before but this sounds like a very interesting phenomenon. Do you have more information? Is this a new term? Where did it originate?

What a crock of shit. Practically every historian says it was caused by soviet policy. The only debate that occurs if whether it was due to stupidity or intentional genocide.

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I could keep going. Gonna tell me how the Holocaust was a lie too?

Ok let’s do some links
Holodomor

Chinese famine

Gulag

Homelessness in Russia

Continued

Woohoo both systems suck. You can actually believe that just because one system is bad, what is considered the opposite is also bad. Marx was not some omniscient doctor manhattan. He had some ideas. Some were good critiques on capitalist culture. Others were fantasy that do not function in the real world.

I’m sure there were extra houses after all those people that starved to death.

Yeah those soviets sure got rid of the homeless problem. Can’t be homeless when you were intentionally starved to death.

Yeah I saw when that happened. I don’t do the open sharing. But it is easy to identify me as a Jew plenty of other ways. Including online with things attached to my real name. So it is what it is.

Yeah this doesn’t bother me. And I tend to be a somewhat paranoid person. But I got convinced to do one of these by my partner. And so far, no regrets. They had some family surprises, but they don’t regret it either. If they make some cool new meds with my DNA (honestly even if I have only the knowledge that they made meds from 23andme) I’m just going to go around saying hey that might have my DNA in it.

Just wait until you guys find out what they’re really doing is cloning us all to replace us with mindless worker drones. I accidentally met mine. They were nice. Bought me a coffee. Then I got real sleepy and woke up half buried in the woods. Real strange day.

It’s interconnected, sure, but I think you’d have an uphill battle that it doesn’t belong to that person.

So are you arguing that both the governments of Israel and Palestine in no way represent the people they govern?

But these groups and people weren’t the same people as the ones that walked across the land bridge. The cultures had long since diverged and were different. Wars had been fought. Whole groups died or merged. And if you go back a little further, they are all closely related. I don’t think the point is that the slaughtering and pillaging was OK. It is that you cannot have a good faith argument on fixing current problems by trying to focus only on arbitrary time periods to claim certain privileges. I am very much in favor of doing more to make the lives of the native americans better, but I also will not make the argument that descendants of Europeans or Africans have no claim to the land there either. Because to do so is not in good faith and just ignores reality. Any time period you pick to decide who has a claim to a place is arbitrary. We cannot change the past. We can only change the future (but we are limited by the confines of the present).

Nah. Don’t let the current situation fool you. You’ve seen that I’m very pro-Israel in my other comments. But there are many of us that are lefties through and through. I mean most Jews in the US lean slightly left of the democrats. I lean further. And David ben Gurion was super leftist. Hardcore socialist commie pinko, that one. If I had been around for the founding of Israel, I’d probably have been kicking back on a kibbutz somewhere.

But the right is definitely not our friend. Most of them support Israel for christo-fascist dreams of the apocalypse. They want to use us. And we should be careful to think that we are the ones using them.

I do not know where you are from, but especially concerning the US and Europe, I do think it’s important to understand where this support comes from – even if they don’t actually know it either. It’s the underdog problem. Israel is much stronger than in the past. We have won many wars against people who wished to murder us all. We became a force to be reckoned with. And the Palestinian territories are the underdog. And the left has normalized seeing the underdog as the marginalized victim. They are not used to seeing an underdog victimizer. From South Africa to Ireland to PoCs and the LGBT+ communities, they are used to things going one way. And things are not one way. There is a whole 3d plane of possibilities in this world. And that’s why I argue more about Israel than anything else on here. To try to help people see that things are not black and white. This isn’t a left or right issue. This isn’t a David vs Goliath issue. This is something that cannot be boiled down to simple concepts or comparisons. And the more you know, the harder it really is to if not agree with what Israel is doing, to at least understand why they might make the choices they do. And it is not for the sole purpose of ethnic cleansing or genocide. At least not for the majority.

This is a lie. Hamas won the vote. The EU, UN, and the Carter Center all called those elections free and fair. If anything, Hamas was an underdog given that Israel, in collaboration with Fatah, kept arresting the politicians in Hamas as they defined Hamas a terrorist organization. Fatah and Israel wanted to delay the elections, but with the encouragement of the US (GWB in particular who felt Hamas would definitely not win), they decided to keep them as they were. Stop making things up to fit your narrative. Hamas still typically wins the popular vote in polling done since then. You have a fucking computer. Just google it. It’s all there in black and white.

I mean they did have conflicts with Fatah. But the biggest fights weren’t until after they won the election.

That article has such a stupid take. It takes tiny pieces of quotes from a couple of ex-Israeli officials and with one of them is clearly omitting context. Did Israel permit Islamist groups to do stuff like build mosques and have charities? Yes. Did he also say, but it is not mentioned in the article, that they were completely peaceful at the time and that Israel didn’t want to be viewed as attacking Islam? Also yes.

See, what you are saying is that Israel created Hamas by not using more oppression to stop these groups at a time when they were not attacking Israel, but the PLO was. And that is just such a simple naive take that it is ridiculous. Yeah if Israel could redo things, they might have decided that was a good idea. But then again, what if it just caused more attacks from the surrounding countries after they were claimed to be “attacking Islam.” Then would we also blame Israel for those attacks due to them repressing the Islamist movements?

It even does the same by using cherry picked foresight about Afghanistan. It entirely ignores the situation in Afghanistan and just implies that the US caused Al Qaeda. Things just aren’t that simple. It’s entirely possible that had the US and other countries not interfered in Afghanistan that the soviet union would’ve lasted longer and Afghanistan might’ve been another Chechnya.

At the time, Israel was having to fight against the PLO. They were not fighting against the religious Islamic groups. And knowing the history of the time period and the politics in the region, the very religious groups were not nearly the force that they are now. So they made choices for reasons that absolutely made sense at the time. And we have no way of knowing how things would be different if they made different choices.

We can say that places that aren’t Israel still have issues with the Muslim brotherhood or are friendly with them all over the middle east. And Israel certainly didn’t create the Muslim Brotherhood. And if Israel didn’t exist and it was all a Palestinian state with a secular government, it isn’t a stretch to say that they would be in that area too, calling for an Islamist government. As they have done in Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, and more.

So again, the entire state of Israel? The ones elected in free and fair elections? Don’t get me wrong. I am not a fan of Likud and I loathe ben Gvir and Otzma Yehudit. Just all of it. And only Hamas. The group that won what was called a free and fair election by the EU and the Carter Center and continues to be ahead in opinion polling since they have stopped elections. What are you defining as “Israel the State”?

Why do you say Israel and Hamas? Not Likud. Not otzma Yehudit. Just Israel. All of Israel is an enemy? But only Hamas when it comes to Palestine. What about the PLO? Are they fine? Yesh Atid? Or is it really just only Hamas but all of Israel?

I hate the idea that older kids shouldn’t do it. Like I remember getting shit when I decided to be kid-like again at 15 after not having done it when I was 13 and 14.

Houses told me I was too old. And looking back now, as a parent of teens, and I wish they and their friends were just going out trick r treating. I will definitely encourage any kid I see. And at my age anyone under 26 is a kid, easily. I’d much rather kids do something communal and fun than just go out drinking. I’m sure that by the next Halloween when I was 16 I was probably doing something less good than asking for free candy.

If we want people to be communal, have fun, and be safe then we shouldn’t give them shit when they do that. So I don’t care if the old dude down the streets dons a skeleton costume and grabs a pillow case. If he has a costume, he gets candy. And anyone who tells me different will get called out for being a killjoy.

So I left out that somewhere late in the movie she cut it off, but it was literally at the end of the last class (with her) and I couldn’t remember what scene it was. I was thinking it was the man ass in the shower but that would’ve been to early. Now I remember she was heated after “let’s beat these bitches” and ended it at “now that’s a titty.” But she said turn it off, I got up to do it because I didn’t want her to take my tape. The bell rang. I grabbed my video and bolted out of the door. Did not see her again until next year.

So back when I was in school, I took home ec. For some reason close to the end of the year, the fairly religious teacher said if we all were able to not take her exam (allowed by the school if you had an A), then we could pick a movie to watch for the last couple of classes. We did it.

So some context, I fucked with this teacher all year. She’d bring up some religious shit and I’d press her on her religious ideas. She had a project where we had to carry around a fake baby, when I was supposed to return it, I had a friend watch it the hall while I told her I had an abortion. Clothes we had to make? All black. Sometimes I was a little teenage asshole, but sometimes she maybe should’ve left Jesus at home. And while sometimes I got to her, she mostly took it well. But she definitely knew I was one to fuck around.

Day before the movie she is definitely already on summer vacation in her head, because she asks what movie we wanted to watch (we have to supply the movie) and I instantly said Half baked. It got some laughs and a couple of girls saying yeah! That one. But I figured she’d go “haha but really pick something I’ll let you watch.”

Nope. She says OK. Whatever we want. I do a double take. Ask if she is sure? She makes sure I can bring it and gives me the all clear.

I watched her face more than I watched the movie. It was amazing when she realized what she had allowed. But to her credit, she let the movie roll on. And nothing happened. We didn’t have smart phones to post it to a Twitter that didn’t exist yet. No one had furious parents calling for her head. Shit, I don’t think news of it even reached administration. In spite of me telling the story to literally everyone with ears. If it did, they didn’t give a fuck. She was still the teacher when I visited some family in town years later.

I forgot about that until this post. Thanks op for helping me reminisce.

I’m curious what disinformation you’re talking about given what you quoted? And you implied that it is known, but why do you think said disinformation would be spread?

Also, there are no settlers in Gaza. Haven’t been for around 18 years.