Honestly dog, this is exactly the right question. I get it. Shoutout to you for asking it. Truly.

From the liberal perspective, this is exactly how it goes. “I voted against fascism, yet fascism still festers. What gives?”

The liberal framework pushes the idea that electoralism is the be all end all form of political participation, but leftists refute this. Leftists say that you have a plethora of other tools at your disposal to express yourself politically: buy a gun, do mutual aid, join an organization, read theory, participate in local politics, etc…

If your question is earnest, I’d encourage you to read some Lenin.

Yup.

What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.

To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between

“Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?”

And

“Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!”

If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the “good old days” of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.

There are plenty of racists who aren’t fascist. There are plenty or countries with racism problems that aren’t fascist. There are plenty of dumbfucks who aren’t fascist. There are plenty of illiterate countries that aren’t fascist. “Stupidity” (im being careful here - i dont think illiteracy = stupid) and racism predates fascism.

Youve reached the limit of the liberal ideological framework and have resorted to explaining fascism as some sort of cultural pathology. This is what happens when your idealist politics prioritizes individual psychology and moralistic explanations over historical and economic analysis.

It’s frustrating seeing liberals watch the fascist devolution in real-time, and just throw up their hands saying “well i guess americans are just stupid! QED!”. It conveniently absolves them for their complicity in facilitating fascism, and it spits in the face of victims of US policy, both foreign and abroad.

For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument… then they’d see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.

As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan’s podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because Fox News? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, “is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?”

If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you’re always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.

this isn’t a response to conditions. Because if it were the people voting for Trump should realize he is not now nor ever going to help them economically.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. Just because a response to changing conditions is irrational doesn’t mean it is not a response to changing conditions. It seems like you’re arguing that Trump supporters give their support to Trump because they think he will ruin the economy, but that’s obviously not the case. One of the Trump camp’s main arguments is his economic aptitude (whether or not you believe that is complete bullshit). The undeniable reality is that Trump supporters truly believe he is going to save the economy even if you (perhaps rightly) think tariffs are going to cause massive damage.

The liberal framework cannot explain why millions of people support Trump because it refuses to acknowledge that capitalism itself generates such movements.

This is why we see liberals using increasingly mystical language (cult). Liberals reduce the Trump phenomenon to irrational devotion to a demagogue, framing it as a psychological or cultural pathology rather than a political response to material conditions. This obscures the fact that Trump’s base is not a brainwashed sect but a coalition of reactionary class forces—primarily the petty bourgeoisie, sections of the labor aristocracy, and segments of the bourgeoisie itself—whose interests align with right-wing populism in the face of capitalist crisis.

By calling it a “cult,” liberals dismiss the genuine (if misguided) grievances of workers who have been destroyed by neoliberalism.

Being lovable does not equal a need for intimate partners.

This is the logical conclusion to “vote blue no matter who”.

Lot of boomer-like fist shaking in these comments.

Newer generations are going to find different things to excel at, and they’ll inevitably give up on some of the old ways.

And what would keep conservatism from sprouting once again in this scenario?

Conservatism is not the issue; the issue is capitalism. Put the capitalists against the wall.

https://socialistra.org/edu/

What makes you say that? It has went over perfectly well for the Trump team, and it was honestly a huge success for them in legitimizing this push for supreme executive power.

Can anyone else think of another state whose constitution explicitly enshrines the right to enslave people?

Can’t wait till I’m hunkered in my basement with a shotgun and my last cans of food, all to see a mouse run by and realize I just got infected.

You didn’t really address any of my points… you’ve just stuck your fingers in your ears and are clinging to blind faith that the liberal order is working exactly and expected, and some higher being is going to swoop down from the clouds and magically steer us out of this fascist debacle… good luck with that. Since you’re not serious anymore, I’ll leave you a quote from Hitler.

“And so, I established in 1919 a programme and tendency that was a conscious slap in the face of the democratic-pacifist world. [We knew] it might take five or ten or twenty years, yet gradually an authoritarian state arose within the democratic state, and a nucleus of fanatical devotion and ruthless determination formed in a wretched world that lacked basic convictions.

Only one danger could have jeopardised this development — if our adversaries had understood its principle, established a clear understanding of our ideas, and not offered any resistance. Or, alternatively, if they had from the first day annihilated with the utmost brutality the nucleus of our new movement.

Neither was done. The times were such that our adversaries were no longer capable of accomplishing our annihilation, nor did they have the nerve. Arguably, they furthermore lacked the understanding to assume a wholly appropriate attitude. Instead, they began to tyrannise our young movement by bourgeois means, and, by doing so, they assisted the process of natural selection in a very fortunate manner.

pointing out his lies and failures to people who may have voted for him to erode his support

What evidence do you have that this works? If anything, the last decade has demonstrably proved that this idea is false.

You can appeal to facts and logic until the cows come home, but you’re not going to make a dent in his approval rating or quell fascism. This is pure liberalism: the idea that the marketplace of ideas is what ultimately turns the wheel of history - the idea that with an epic enough slam, with enough scathing blasts, with enough late night talk show hit pieces, with enough appeals to facts and logic, you can convince a fascist to reason themselves out of being fascist. Although that might work once in a blue moon, it’s not how you systematically stop fascism. Fascism thrives when material conditions for working-class people start to deteriorate, so the only way to stamp it out is either to kill the fascists or make material changes to the daily lives of working people. The dems have shown zero interest in doing either. It is pretty scary to me that your idea of “fighting injustice” ultimately just boils down to virtue signaling online about how you’re so much smarter than the fascists who fail to see (or simply dont care) about Trump’s hypocrisy. Liberals are getting mighty jumpy since the only recourse they have included in their poltical framework is linking politifacts on Facebook and hoping fascism magically dies.

Way to dodge the question. I’ll try again: what is to be gained by highlighting Trump’s hypocrisy?

The fact that you not only dodged the question, but got hostile, makes me think you already have an idea.

Every lie he told should be constantly spouted back at him and his cronies.

Why? Honest question. What’s the point?

Just like Biden used the SCOTUS immunity ruling to legally assassinate trump?

Democrats will not ever break precedent.