I know I’m taking a joke remark too seriously, but “History is written by the victors” is just plain wrong. More often than not it is, sure, but it’s not exclusively, or even overwhelmingly.
“History is written by the victors” is just plain wrong
The most published book in the world just so happens to be the religious narrative that justifies the most successful empire-building exercise in world history.
The second most published book in the world is a book of quotations by the founder of the modern incarnation of the most populace (and arguably the most economically successful) nation in world history.
The third most published book (series) in the world is a fantasy about wizards in high school written and distributed by the colonial power that originally mass marketed that first book so aggressively.
it’s not exclusively, or even overwhelmingly
Perhaps “History is published and distributed by the victors” is a more accurate. But it is always worth analyzing the historical narrative you receive through the lens of the people producing and distributing the texts.
Yeah, sure, Howard Zinn and Hunter S. Thompson and Betty Friedan exist. But their works are unlikely to be the ones your Middle School World History teacher is distributing copies of. In fact, given the recent wave of book bans and library scourges happening across the United States, you’re even less likely to find a copy of their works today than you would have five or ten years ago.
You’re deliberately misinterpreting my statement as “history is never written by the victors”, which isn’t what I said. I have another comment with a number of examples that disprove the quote that everyone treats as gospel.
I don’t know what your second example is referring to.
And Harry Potter being written by someone who happens to be from a former colonial power is the biggest reach I believe I’ve seen in my entire life. So good job with that.
Seriously, how is that an example of history being written by the victors? Childrens books are written by the victors, maybe. It’s a book about magic school kids, not a writing of history. And it was published by a publishing company, not by the government of colonial-era Britain.
History is not written by the victors. It is written by those who are most able to write history. More often than not this is the victors, but it is far, far from the rule.
It’s a very idealist Hume-inspired view of history that even makes this distinction. It’s taking for granted that history is determined by conflicts between good and bad. This also takes form in phrases like “the right side of history.”
or, “what no historical materialism does to a mfer.”
Actual history is written by historians.
Textbooks are written by the people who are currently winning.
Popular understanding of history is written by anyone who has the money and the will.
Yes, I listened a really long podcast about it and I know it made total sense and listed a lot of evidence, but as always, I can’t recall anything but the point that truly the saying is wrong. Do you have an example?
Modern sensibilities see them as the good guys, but for most of colonial history they were painted as the bad guys. Kids played cowboys and Indians the same way they played cops and robbers.
Strangely you have misunderstood my comment. It was clearly meant about the saying that history is written by the winners. There is no saying that winners are the good guys.
Even more strangely you are not the only one. I can only surmise that people are really itching to get offended by something. Or do you think it’s something else?
Strangely you have misunderstood my comment. It was clearly meant about the saying that history is written by the winners. There is no saying that winners are the good guys.
Even more strangely you are not the only one. I can only surmise that people are really itching to get offended by something. Or do you think it’s something else?
There’s plenty of examples, but possibly the most interesting one is China.
China, historically, fanatically wrote about their history, and unfortunately for them, particularly around the time prior to the Ming Dynasty, most of this was writing about them having their arses repeatedly handed to them by Mongol armies.
For the US, plenty of the history surrounding their civil war was, at least for a while, written by supporters of the Confederacy, which is why to this day there’s still so many people pushing the “it was about states rights!” thing.
Sticking to the US, let’s be real, despite many Americans claiming otherwise, the US lost their war with the British Empire and their allied natives in 1812, yet the US often refers to it as being a draw, or even (though more rarely) an American win.
England under Cromwell invading Ireland was written about heavily on both sides, and England isn’t exactly presented as being the good side.
It’s probably more accurate to say History is most consistently written by the most literate, but that doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue.
Yup. And while this is obviously easier to do when you’re the winner, it’s not a requirement.
Most of the records of the Mongols outclassing China over such a long period of time comes from Chinese writings, for example.
People love believing blanket, black and white statements. History is written by the victors, nobody else, I know this because it’s a Churchill quote, it has to be true!
If history was written exclusively by the victors, the Khans would be considered one of the greatest empires of all time. However, the Mongolians didn’t really have a pronounced aristocracy class that focused on arts/writing, and so most of our records regarding their conquests are written by Chinese and European scholars, a.k.a. the losers.
I know I’m taking a joke remark too seriously, but “History is written by the victors” is just plain wrong. More often than not it is, sure, but it’s not exclusively, or even overwhelmingly.
History is written by the literate.
I can’t remember the comedian who was like “This America guy was just a mapmaker and now he’s famous.”
History is written by historians
Historians are written by genetic material as well as experiences and reactions to both.
And historians work for the victors.
History is
The most published book in the world just so happens to be the religious narrative that justifies the most successful empire-building exercise in world history.
The second most published book in the world is a book of quotations by the founder of the modern incarnation of the most populace (and arguably the most economically successful) nation in world history.
The third most published book (series) in the world is a fantasy about wizards in high school written and distributed by the colonial power that originally mass marketed that first book so aggressively.
Perhaps “History is published and distributed by the victors” is a more accurate. But it is always worth analyzing the historical narrative you receive through the lens of the people producing and distributing the texts.
Yeah, sure, Howard Zinn and Hunter S. Thompson and Betty Friedan exist. But their works are unlikely to be the ones your Middle School World History teacher is distributing copies of. In fact, given the recent wave of book bans and library scourges happening across the United States, you’re even less likely to find a copy of their works today than you would have five or ten years ago.
You’re deliberately misinterpreting my statement as “history is never written by the victors”, which isn’t what I said. I have another comment with a number of examples that disprove the quote that everyone treats as gospel.
I don’t know what your second example is referring to.
And Harry Potter being written by someone who happens to be from a former colonial power is the biggest reach I believe I’ve seen in my entire life. So good job with that.
Seriously, how is that an example of history being written by the victors? Childrens books are written by the victors, maybe. It’s a book about magic school kids, not a writing of history. And it was published by a publishing company, not by the government of colonial-era Britain.
History is not written by the victors. It is written by those who are most able to write history. More often than not this is the victors, but it is far, far from the rule.
It’s a very idealist Hume-inspired view of history that even makes this distinction. It’s taking for granted that history is determined by conflicts between good and bad. This also takes form in phrases like “the right side of history.”
or, “what no historical materialism does to a mfer.”
maybe instead of ‘written’ it should be ‘taught’ or ‘indoctrinated’
Actual history is written by historians. Textbooks are written by the people who are currently winning. Popular understanding of history is written by anyone who has the money and the will.
“Just plain wrong”…“More often than not” yeah…
Yes, I listened a really long podcast about it and I know it made total sense and listed a lot of evidence, but as always, I can’t recall anything but the point that truly the saying is wrong. Do you have an example?
Can you reword that?
The Native Americans are generally considered “the good guys” and clearly lost.
Modern sensibilities see them as the good guys, but for most of colonial history they were painted as the bad guys. Kids played cowboys and Indians the same way they played cops and robbers.
And of course we now know that cops are worse than robbers and so the wheel of progress keeps turning!
Strangely you have misunderstood my comment. It was clearly meant about the saying that history is written by the winners. There is no saying that winners are the good guys.
Even more strangely you are not the only one. I can only surmise that people are really itching to get offended by something. Or do you think it’s something else?
I find your comment offensive to people who are easily offended. Also, I think you’re sheeple. Do your own research. The media is lying to you.
Strangely you have misunderstood my comment. It was clearly meant about the saying that history is written by the winners. There is no saying that winners are the good guys.
Even more strangely you are not the only one. I can only surmise that people are really itching to get offended by something. Or do you think it’s something else?
The many many cultures who were just living life, only to be wiped out by colonists. Are they the good guys?
There’s plenty of examples, but possibly the most interesting one is China.
China, historically, fanatically wrote about their history, and unfortunately for them, particularly around the time prior to the Ming Dynasty, most of this was writing about them having their arses repeatedly handed to them by Mongol armies.
For the US, plenty of the history surrounding their civil war was, at least for a while, written by supporters of the Confederacy, which is why to this day there’s still so many people pushing the “it was about states rights!” thing.
Sticking to the US, let’s be real, despite many Americans claiming otherwise, the US lost their war with the British Empire and their allied natives in 1812, yet the US often refers to it as being a draw, or even (though more rarely) an American win.
England under Cromwell invading Ireland was written about heavily on both sides, and England isn’t exactly presented as being the good side.
It’s probably more accurate to say History is most consistently written by the most literate, but that doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue.
History is written by people who write it down (and then get it successfully accepted/disseminated to a certain degree).
Yup. And while this is obviously easier to do when you’re the winner, it’s not a requirement.
Most of the records of the Mongols outclassing China over such a long period of time comes from Chinese writings, for example.
People love believing blanket, black and white statements. History is written by the victors, nobody else, I know this because it’s a Churchill quote, it has to be true!
If history was written exclusively by the victors, the Khans would be considered one of the greatest empires of all time. However, the Mongolians didn’t really have a pronounced aristocracy class that focused on arts/writing, and so most of our records regarding their conquests are written by Chinese and European scholars, a.k.a. the losers.