Summary
Mark Carney, frontrunner for Canadian Liberal Party leadership and potential prime minister, stated Canada will stand up to a bully after Trump imposed 25% tariffs on Canadian imports.
Carney vowed to retaliate by matching the US tariffs dollar for dollar, asserting Canada would not cave in despite mounting pressure.
He criticized Trump for undermining trade agreements, warning that the tariffs would damage the US global reputation and economic stability.
Outgoing Prime Minister Trudeau promised a forceful, immediate response, emphasizing unity as Canada defends its economic interests, ensuring national prosperity.
Good on Canada and Mexico for sticking to their guns and not rolling over for Trump. Show him that winning trade wars isn’t as easy as he likes to think it is, and then force him into favorable terms when he implodes his own economy.
This isn’t a bully, our organizations and institutions are under attack from an unelected billionaire who bought the president while he was still a candidate. This is a coup by neo Nazis. We are fucked and they will start a war with you.
The moose cavalry will handle it.
God I hate trade wars, but good on Canada for not rolling over for Trump.
I mean honestly, what’s the alternative?
This is basic game theory as far as I can see.
I really really hope they continue resisting. My biggest fear is everyone gives him what he wants and the idiots I’m surrounded by cheer his victory.
the idiots I’m surrounded by cheer his victory.
That’s kinda the American way, sadly.
“Matching the US tariffs dollar for dollar” is such a stupid policy.
A better policy would be stopping flows of Canadian dollars to the US. Declare that US patents are no longer valid in Canada. Pass a law requiring that Apple and Google allow competing app stores on their phones with no strings attached. Remove any penalty from jailbreaking phones and allow anybody who wants to sell jailbreaking kits. Declare a universal right to repair in Canada, so that Canadian farmers don’t have to pay John Deere if they want to repair their tractors. Say that all copyrights belonging to the Hollywood copyright cartel are no longer recognized, and let people trade their music, tv and movies freely.
Nobody’s going to be brave enough to do that. But, really, the US declaring a 25% across-the-board tariff on Canada is basically an economic nuke. Don’t respond with a measured and exactly equal economic war response. Canada can’t win by fighting by those rules.
Edit: Better yet, because it’s more likely to be possible, just decriminalize it. Don’t change the laws. Just make it clear to police and prosecutors that someone who infringes on American IP should be treated like someone smoking pot in public in 2015. Imagine someone setting up a little kiosk in the Eaton Centre selling the latest movies and software for pennies while the cops just ignored them. If John Deere tries to get someone charged for selling “fix your tractor” software bundles that bypass the access controls on tractors, the police should just laugh at them. Picture a kiosk that roots your phone and lets you install a Canadian app store where the vendor’s cut is only 5% not 30%, and all the profits stay in Canada. A thriving business could be set up where you bring in your HP printer, and walk out with a device that can use any ink at all. Canada could even host How-Tos and tools for the rest of the world on how to take control over your electronics. Can you imagine how quickly Tim Apple would book a flight to Mar A Lago to beg with Trump to back down?
I think this is much more likely in Mexico though. The respect for US intellectual property is already pretty low there to begin with. But, formally, the government still officially respects US IP. What if they let off the brakes entirely and just let the “invisible hand of the market” work without the handcuffs of IP law?
You are not wrong in some of theses but they would requiere a legal framework that does not exist today to be created in a hurry.
Tariffs are literally easier so they are the first step and it does not mean they would be the last
Doesn’t the Tariffs Basically invalidate the old trade agreements, making them worthless so now the other countries can do whatever they want?
I would think so but don’t really know from a legal standpoint
What’s clear now is that a contract with the USA is not worth an “Elon’s promise” so any current agreement is basically null and void
Stop! You are making too much sense!
Bury him. The entire world will thank you.
If y’all want to burn the white house down again, I’ll bring marshmallows for us to roast on the flames.
I wanna see people partying like it’s 1812
I’d rather they burn down Mar-a-lago. The White House is a nice historic building.
“Why don’t you want to join the land of the free and home of the brave?”
Because if we gave in to the pressure and joined, we would be neither.
Make US thirteen colonies again?
Canada should join the EU.
The EU as a structure is such that some piss drops like Orban can stall its reaction to events long enough to make it useless.
But! A new no-bullshit world confederation would be nice. With a combined military, of course.
I’m an expat who has been a permanent resident of Canada since 2017, and it’s a horror show watching Trump receive a second term and then turn on Canada. I know his threat of invasion/buying Canada or whatever is all peacocking, but if in ten years I’ve been thrust back into the American healthcare system, I’ll throw myself off of a bridge.
Genuine curiosity, why do you call yourself an “expat” instead of “immigrant”? Is there a difference?
It’s the (stupid) legal term of an American who has moved abroad. Even my tax returns are done through “expat services”.
I wish I could be called an expat instead of an immigrant, sounds less of a stigma, lucky you. Best of luck out there!
That’s the point. There’s a pretentious implication that your priviledged when the term “expat” is used, but their just emmigrants of priviledged western nations.
Its the same with the UK “expats.” When brexit first happened many UK expats were blown away that Spain was treating them like Immigrants even though they were.
You could just start telling everyone your an expat of your country of origin. I don’t know if it will help you, but it certainly will make you sound more pretentious
That’s one way of looking at it. I always perceived the distinction to be more of an intended disgrace upon ex-Americans who have left the country. “Guess you’re no longer a patriot then.”
That stigma was mostly created by Americans … They just don’t want it for themselves
I’ll throw myself off of a bridge.
But couldn’t y’all set a better example by throwing anyone involved with private insurance off that bridge?
Canada won’t willingly be part of the US. If the US invades Canada, it would be the end of the US.
The US gets boners over their military tech, but they weren’t able to successfully occupy Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Canada is bigger than those countries, and this would not be an overseas war where they can just go home when they fail. Americans don’t have the willpower to succeed with a long drawn out occupation. They freak the fuck out over a few drones in New Jersey, they obviously wouldn’t be able to handle a war on the North American continent involving drones flying over them carrying explosives and searching for targets. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg of what a US war with Canada would be like.
The population of the US has no appetite for invading Canada, many of us have close friends and family there, we consider Canada a friend and ally and Trumps hissy fit doesn’t change that.
If the US invades Canada there will be a lot of Americans aiding resistance.
Not to mention the countless young adults and teenagers that still think of Canada as a saving grace, nearly utopia-esque place. Their healthcare, prison and education systems have profound impacts on the minds of young people. Or at least they did a few years ago when I was in school.
In any case, you’ve got a lot of people in America that would much rather fight for Canada
I don’t actually think the US would survive such a war. The trouble is that many states would defect. Can you imagine CA footing the bill for an invasion of Canada? Already a trade war is extremely dangerous. How easy would it be for, say NY, to sabotage the border controls?
Yeah it would be a both a reason and an opportunity for states to secede.
There’s a significant probability of that happening anyway… how long will progressive (and wealthy) states subsidize backwards and ignorant states? The whole reason why Trump is in power is because there are no consequences for significant parts of the US to be backwards thinking. If it were all separate countries the red states (red countries?) would have to become a little more progressive or they’d be living in poverty. As it is now, states like California and NYC are forced to subsidize the red states no matter how backwards they get and the red states get to force their backwards values onto the progressive states.
This is not sustainable long term. If this situation persists, it’s the end of the USA. If Trump pushes things too far it only accelerates the timetable. Right now the allies of the US don’t want this to happen. But those countries are no longer allies of the US and start working in the other direction then it’s all over for the USA.
The US can turn things around, but there needs significant changes to reverse it’s downward spiral.
Imagine fighting a resistance that can just cross over the border and perfectly blend in with your population. It’s madness to even suggest it even if they weren’t important allies.
The whole idea is ludicrous. There are so many things that would make it utterly impossible.
- The border. Ignore everything else, just think about the border. The US/Canada border is the longest land border on the planet. It’s utterly impossible to defend that border.
- Utter lack of support for the war. Even the Vietnam War enjoyed a decent amount of popular support for the first few years. Imagine starting a war that more than 50% of the population opposed right off the bat.
- Conflict on US soil for the first time since the Civil War. Sure, the US participated in WWI and WWII, and they were the main military force in the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf wars. Those were all wars that happened overseas somewhere. A few thousand people died on Sept. 11th and the whole country freaked out for decades. The US psyche isn’t ready for a war on US soil.
Militarily, Canada couldn’t stand up to the US at all. But, the “Troubles” in Northern Ireland show what guerilla tactics can achieve, especially when it’s almost impossible to distinguish the “bad guys” from the “good guys”. And, that’s without even talking about all the Americans who would take the opportunity to turn against their own fascist government.
Would any allies be dragged in to support Canada? Could it escalate?
There wouldn’t really be any formal arrangement, because I imagine the Canadian government would fall within days. Ottawa is only a 2 hour drive from the US border, most of the Canadian population lives right next to the border. But, you could easily see various countries covertly supplying resistance cells with weapons. Most of Western Europe wouldn’t do it openly because they’re too vulnerable to the US. But, maybe covertly. China and Russia would definitely try to help Canadian resistance, just to destabilize the US.
Troop morale would be incredibly low, too. I would be pissed if I somehow got drafted to invade Canada. It’d be like something out of a cartoon.
Right? Like “Bro they’ve got maple syrup, healthcare, and poutine. If you think I’m pointing a rifle at them instead of marching up there with a gift basket and immigration papers, you gotta be out of your mind!” Lol
It’s inevitable though on a long enough timeline. We all know that the entire western US is literally running out of water, and eventually they’re gonna want ours. I’m sure conversations have been had about how to get it, and someday it’s gonna happen. When that day comes, I just pray to baby Jebus that Trump isn’t the one in charge so there might be a shred of hope for a diplomatic arrangement instead of a straight-up invasion for our resources.
Unfortunately you have enough people who just believe whatever their guy says. I’d think it would be like a Russia-Ukraine type thing, in the sense that a lot of friends and family are on both sides of the border, but Russia still found (and admittedly forced) enough people who didn’t care.
It would literally be asked to potentially die for the cause of betraying an ally for money. And not money for you, money for already extremely wealthy oligarchs.
Isn’t that most wars for the last 50 years though to be honest?
No, just the Iraq war was like that. And even then Saddam Hussein was actually an evil motherfucker and the US tried to claim it was a war about liberation. But we know oil was a significant consideration there.
Afghanistan was about finding the terrorist that did 9/11. I’m Canadian so I have family that went over there and came back with PTSD. We were only over there because the US was our ally. Only war Canada has ever lost in it’s history and it was because the US fucked it all up by going on a side quest to Iraq.
Like Russia and Ukraine, basically… But way more direct and overt.
Plus, it’d suck for at least four months a year
Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq etc are vastly different to the US itself in culture and language and everything.
A lot of misfortune was due to that.
Canada isn’t.
Anyway, I don’t think your idea of power balance here is right. Canada’s defense is basically a module of US defense.
Things about blending in and such, in our age of street cameras and computing power far more than needed, are just childish.
US absolutely can anschluss Canada, the question is why, because strategically it already gets from it everything it would provide as a state.
I think you underestimate how savagely Canadian resistance would treat invading Americans. Canadians are also incredibly patriotic. Terrorism and brutality would be the best defense in a war that was already unpopular and everyone knows it.
Additionally, they are used to environmental hardships the average American grunt isnt prepared for. The nation is massive and full of inhospitable wilderness to melt into.
It would be a long, brutal, drawn out guerilla war. Yes, the US would steamroll the Canadian military. After that it would be hell for those on the ground.
Its all fantasy anyway because the US has no reason to actually invade Canada. Trump just says it to rile people up and pundits are just licking his asshole when they agree.
Only an American would think that Canada is the same as the US. Because Americans are completely ignorant of Canada, in the same way they’re ignorant of the other places they tried (and failed) to conquer. Which is exactly why it’ll go the same way… only worse because there’s a lot of targets within drone range of Canada.
We seem similar but that’s to our advantage. There’s a very long border that Canadians can cross and you’d have to admit, Canadians would blend in well with the US population. While you’re looking at troop counts and number of planes and think it’ll be easy, we’re over here thinking about how easy it would be for us to fight a guerilla war on US soil. It’s been a long time since the US fought a war on your own soil and I’m seeing a lot of soft targets.
Also remember this would be the US betraying an ally. An ally that was just in a war fighting alongside the US for decades. Then a few years after that the US betrays it’s ally for what? Money? When the US is already the wealthiest country in the world? Never in human history has a country been so dishonorable. What do you think the US troop morale would be when ordered to do something so despicable? To fight against an ally to make some wealthy oligarchs even more wealthy? Canada would get a lot of help even from within the US if something like this were to happen. There would be a significant fifth column, to the point where the US might collapse into civil war.
If the US were to attempt invading Canada, it would be the end of the US.
and you’d have to admit, Canadians would blend in well with the US population.
I’m already laughing at the propaganda posters I’m imagining:
“Did YOUR neighbor just say ‘oot’, ‘sorry’, or ‘zed’? REPORT THEM TO YOUR NEAREST PATRIOTISM ASSURANCE OFFICER TODAY.”
Minnesota is gonna have some problems.
I disagree, meal team six would make short work of any Canadian bacon, thus starving the Canadians into submission
oh, you mean the LARPing fucktards who couldn’t pull off the insurrection a few years back? yeah they seem really motivated and organized
I don’t know a single person who isn’t for a harsh retaliation. I haven’t felt this united with my fellow Canadians ever.
There are plenty of people in the US cheering for harsh retaliation, too. Despite being directly harmed by it.
This man is going out of his way to hurt everyone he can regardless, and everyone who can do anything here is just sitting down, shutting up, and obeying in advance.
I am glad that other countries are ready and willing to to hit this bully back. Seems like the best hope we have is from people on the outside.
I’m in the US. Fucking make it hurt. Maybe it’ll make the shitstains finally learn, or at least kill off enough that this shit won’t be a worry in the near figure.
Is it gonna suck for me? Yup. But it is anyways, so instead of the frog in the pot lets flambe this shit.
I’m cheering for harsh retaliation because it’s the only language the orange man will understand. If the economy has to collapse for us to have any chance of getting Americans to ditch their support of fascism, well we’ve already fucked up a million times to get this far so we’ll have to struggle through it.
economy has to collapse
This may have unexpected consequences.
Smith isn’t, and, as an Albertan, it’s goddamn embarassing. Nothing authoritarians like more than a bigger authoritarian.
Ford is also an authoritarian, though, and he’s putting up a fight. Or at least he says he’s going to put up a fight. I’m worried that he’s just making a show of things so that he can roll over after the election’s over and we can’t get rid of him.
Probably has more to do with her being in the pocket of the oil industry.
Heard an old bitch (Alberta) complaining yesterday in my store about something Joe Biden did.
And Scott Moe in Saskatchewan.
Honestly, all of this “51st state” bullshit has been a gift to Canada. For far too long the leaders on the right have been appealing to Canadian MAGA by emulating and praising everything Trump and his ilk do, and now they’re being forced to either turn on Trump or turn on Canada. In something like a week he’s shattered the alliance between the American right and the Canadian right, and left them absolutely spinning in the wind, searching for some sense of identity.
A smarter version of Trump would have kept his mouth shut until Pollievre was in, and then started to lean on him through back channels for consessions, just like Bush did with Harper. That filthy traitor would gladly give Trump everything he wants without a fight. But for Trump it’s about the fight; slapping tariffs on other countries makes his tiny dick feel a little less tiny.
When your main identity is nationalism it just doesn’t make sense to work together with any foreign leader.
All of these guys are stupid really. It would’ve made sense for Pollievre to not push for no confidence and just wait until October where he’d be up against Trudeau and probably win. But he got his way and Trudeau resigned. Now is he going to force an election in the winter where he’s running against a stronger candidate? Last election the Liberals took a big hit in the polls from calling an unscheduled election. How many points will Pollievre lose if he makes a winter election happen?
Pollievre went all-in on US style politics and it’s wearing thin. Running endless ads outside of a campaign has made people sick and tired of him. When his US brethren tank the economy people might question whether being “anti-woke” is sound economic policy.
It’s still his election to lose, but it seems he’s doing everything possible to make that happen.
His other big problem is that he’s just not very likeable. People hate Trudeau, so they were willing to side with anyone who would get him out. But with Trudeau gone voters are now faced with the fact that they really don’t much like Pollievre either.
But, they don’t like Freeland either. And Jagmeet Singh has proven to be pretty useless.
It’s still really likely that the conservatives would win in a landslide. But, at least now their rhetoric has to switch from copying the US to opposing the US.
That likelihood has dropped a lot. Liberals are seeing a significant uptick in recent polls, and Carney has a very positive approval rating (+13 was the latest number I saw). He’s a strong favourite to win the position, and he polls very well in hypothetical matchups against Pollievre right now.
And Jagmeet Singh has proven to be pretty useless.
Other than getting us pharmacare and dental added to our health care, sure.
As if the Australian ScoMo wasn’t bad enough, now there’s two of them…
now there’s two of them
“This is getting out of hand!”
Canadian oil would be hit with lower tariffs of 10%, which would take effect later, on 18 February.
Cool we could put 15% on oil going to US and help trump keep his 25% on everything promises.
Screw 15%. Put it to 25% right now, and on 18 February Trump will have to choose between a 25% increase in oil prices or a 35% increase if he goes through with adding the 10% tariff.
This is a workable method to deal with these four years, a clever leader deciding strategy suggested by very clever advisors can beat a strategy suggested by very clever advisors decided upon by an unclever leader.
