Remember kids, God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and created EVERYTHING; including evil and suffering.
This means that God created evil, knowing full well what that meant for us humans. He knew Adam was going to eat the apple, and lie to him about it, but still got angry that he was lied to; so angry that he damned the rest of humanity as punishment.
So if God created evil, and knew what that would do for all of humanity, and it was a part of his great plan to do so, then God must also be evil.
You can’t have it both ways. He can’t be good and not evil if he created evil. He also lets it happen. He can’t be good and not evil if he knows every mistake we will make, and knowing the impact of our mistakes (i.e., the other people it affects). This makes God culpable for our sins, yet he is not held accountable for his inaction.
Honestly, anyone who says god is all powerful and all knowing clearly hasn’t read the Bible. There is a clear character arc there, and that’s absolutely incompatible with those two assumptions.
I man, look at the whole Jesus thing! He makes himself human to see why the humans can’t be good, he does retain at least some of his godly powers in human form tho. Even as God made human he has outbursts of rage and is at least at one time incredibly inconsiderate to his parents. Clear character faults if you ask me. At the end he is like “shit was hard man, goddamn!” and changes toe policy for going to heaven completely.
Don’t forget how he raped a child to impregnate her, thus also committing adultery and breaking one of his own commandments at the same time, just so he could send his “only begotten son” to die, just to effectively give up and never return.
Rape means no consent, has nothing to do with the unconventional way of conception. The entire passage is so imprecisely written, that I don’t think you can for sure say it would have been rape.
First of all, not all powerful. That is what my first comment was all about. Second, I wouldn’t categorically say no, unlikely, but not impossible. Thirdly, why do so many people feel like debating the finer points of a fictional event with me? You guys are almost as bad as harry potter nerds, except you hate the book you are talking about.
uh wow, I thought we were just chatting, not debating. Why are you acting like this? I also never specified my beliefs so it’s weird to jump to all these conclusions.
This isn’t the gotcha you think it is, because the Bible literally says as much in Isaiah 45:7:
I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things.
However, it’s not valid to conclude from the fact that God created evil that He must therefore be evil, because He created good as well. At best you could say He is neutral.
In fact, it is you who is evil because you ignore all the good that He does and focus only on the evil.
…it’s not valid to conclude from the fact that God created evil that He must therefore be evil, because He created good as well. At best you could say He is neutral.
I hate splitting hairs, but in this case I do feel it’s an important distinction to point out that I said he must “also be evil”; in the sense of being in addition to good, he is also evil. So he is both things, and not just one or the other.
In my personal experiences with Cristians, I have often heard how “God is good” because of all the good things (more often in reference to things other people have done to solve a problem; e.g., doctors, nurses, and firefighters), and that anything considered bad or evil is the work of Satan. At the same time, Christians that I have known are all too happy to acknowledge that God created everything, yet thy conveniently fail to acknowledge that evil is one of those things having been created too.
And for what it’s worth: while my focus here in this conversation has been on the negatives I see in life, that does not mean I do not acknowledge and rejoice in the positives when they present themselves. Mind you, I do suffer from depression and suicidal ideation, so I will acknowledge that it can be difficult from time to time to remember the positives when I feel like I’m drowning in the negatives.
Do with that as you will. I do thank you for the opportunity for discussion. 😊
Remember kids, God is all-powerful, all-knowing, and created EVERYTHING; including evil and suffering.
This means that God created evil, knowing full well what that meant for us humans. He knew Adam was going to eat the apple, and lie to him about it, but still got angry that he was lied to; so angry that he damned the rest of humanity as punishment.
So if God created evil, and knew what that would do for all of humanity, and it was a part of his great plan to do so, then God must also be evil.
You can’t have it both ways. He can’t be good and not evil if he created evil. He also lets it happen. He can’t be good and not evil if he knows every mistake we will make, and knowing the impact of our mistakes (i.e., the other people it affects). This makes God culpable for our sins, yet he is not held accountable for his inaction.
Honestly, anyone who says god is all powerful and all knowing clearly hasn’t read the Bible. There is a clear character arc there, and that’s absolutely incompatible with those two assumptions.
I man, look at the whole Jesus thing! He makes himself human to see why the humans can’t be good, he does retain at least some of his godly powers in human form tho. Even as God made human he has outbursts of rage and is at least at one time incredibly inconsiderate to his parents. Clear character faults if you ask me. At the end he is like “shit was hard man, goddamn!” and changes toe policy for going to heaven completely.
Don’t forget how he raped a child to impregnate her, thus also committing adultery and breaking one of his own commandments at the same time, just so he could send his “only begotten son” to die, just to effectively give up and never return.
Not enough info to meaningfully talk about rape imho, and the ‘son’ thing is a bit complicated. Probably more correctly described as a kind of aspect?
So like conservatives in ‘Merica he just makes a woman have a child by sheer force of will. No rape involved!
Rape means no consent, has nothing to do with the unconventional way of conception. The entire passage is so imprecisely written, that I don’t think you can for sure say it would have been rape.
Well power impacts consent… can you really fully consent to an all powerful being when there’s a chance they might destroy your life for refusing?
First of all, not all powerful. That is what my first comment was all about. Second, I wouldn’t categorically say no, unlikely, but not impossible. Thirdly, why do so many people feel like debating the finer points of a fictional event with me? You guys are almost as bad as harry potter nerds, except you hate the book you are talking about.
uh wow, I thought we were just chatting, not debating. Why are you acting like this? I also never specified my beliefs so it’s weird to jump to all these conclusions.
This isn’t the gotcha you think it is, because the Bible literally says as much in Isaiah 45:7:
However, it’s not valid to conclude from the fact that God created evil that He must therefore be evil, because He created good as well. At best you could say He is neutral.
In fact, it is you who is evil because you ignore all the good that He does and focus only on the evil.
I hate splitting hairs, but in this case I do feel it’s an important distinction to point out that I said he must “also be evil”; in the sense of being in addition to good, he is also evil. So he is both things, and not just one or the other.
In my personal experiences with Cristians, I have often heard how “God is good” because of all the good things (more often in reference to things other people have done to solve a problem; e.g., doctors, nurses, and firefighters), and that anything considered bad or evil is the work of Satan. At the same time, Christians that I have known are all too happy to acknowledge that God created everything, yet thy conveniently fail to acknowledge that evil is one of those things having been created too.
And for what it’s worth: while my focus here in this conversation has been on the negatives I see in life, that does not mean I do not acknowledge and rejoice in the positives when they present themselves. Mind you, I do suffer from depression and suicidal ideation, so I will acknowledge that it can be difficult from time to time to remember the positives when I feel like I’m drowning in the negatives.
Do with that as you will. I do thank you for the opportunity for discussion. 😊