You know I love the idea of cryostasis, and the idea of reanimating people after death is great.
But why the fuck would future humans bother bringing all these people back, even if they could? Even if they have a utopian society free of scarcity and inequality, they would be bringing back mostly rich people who lived in a super different and bad time and have literally nothing positive to contribute to the utopian future, since they were a large part of the problems of today in the first place. Plus the vast majority of them are almost certainly elitist assholes who nobody in a utopia would want to be around.
Maybe it would be a humanitarian thing, but if these people are dead and frozen there’s no real imperative to do this to end suffering or something. Or I guess maybe bringing them back to try and figure out what the hell their damage is that they felt ruining everything was a better option than working toward the betterment of all… but they’d only need a few brains in vats for that, no bodies, so sucks to suck, cryofolks.
If future humans don’t have a utopian society, the only real use for people from so long ago that I can come up with would be research subjects or slaves. And frankly there are easier ways to go about getting those…
So I see no possible future where people who cryopreserve get brought back en masse. Even if it’s entirely possible to surmount the technical hurdles.
why would future humans bother bringing all these people back
i think it’s worth reminding why doctors treat people now, in this time and space. they do it mostly because they want to save people. maybe a few do it for money, but past a certain point, the money isn’t why you do it. i think it’s a safe bet that doctors of a future would see these corpses as patients, and act accordingly. an analogy - think how we see heart attack victims as patients, and not how our medieval ancestors would have seen them (as corpses)
…literally nothing positive to contribute to the utopian future…
true, but, a good chunk of patients in hopsital today have nothing to contribute to society, and cannot contribute any more, whatsoever. we treat them anyway, because that’s what we do. humans have consistently cared for others that are sick and have “nothing to contribute” throughout history, and that shows no sign of going away anytime soon
To answer the questions of archeologists, obviously
And historians
And kindness.
Exellent point, @blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world.
I said kindness, not useless.
Medical research from before whatever plague or virus infects everybody.
Don’t they have problems today studying effects of microplastics because they can’t find a control group of humans who don’t have microplastics in them?
Though that’s a pretty grim future for the rich frozen elite.
we’d do it cause it’d be funny even if they weren’t tortured or nothing. can you imagine a little asshole running around the utopia being like “no, no, I’m supposed to own things, where are my stocks, where are my numbers, no!”. probably it’d suck that all their friends are deade though. I’m sure you thaw a couple cause the have rare diseases or certain kinds of DNA though.
That’s because you’re thinking in term of a society that views most people as a burdensome and undesirable liability. Something we wish we could get rid of faster if possible. It might be tgat in the future, human minds aren’t as poisoned by clubofrome population omb neoliberal billionaire thinking.
Lmao, remember that revived 80’s douchbag business man on star trek TNG?
Soon as those hurdles are surmounted, armies will train then freeze conscripts. Only thawing when they need meat for the grinder, or when better weapons come out that need more training.
That’s the only way they get brought back en masse.
This is literally what happens to Helldivers in Helldivers 2. As much as I enjoy the game I’d rather not have Super Earth become a reality.
Did they get their money back? I didn’t read the article.
Well they’re dead
Wooooosh
Forbidden soup
If anyone is actually interested in learning how this works, this is a great blog post, from an author convinced like many that it’s a stupid thing for the rich, until… Well have a read: https://waitbutwhy.com/2016/03/cryonics.html
The author tries to disprove that cryonics isn’t limited to rich people, while also pointing our the $200,000 upfront cost. Sure, a middle class American could probably swing the $300 annual fees, but most would be hard pressed for the $200k upfront cost.
The $300/year annual fees would be for a life insurance policy that already covers the main fee. There isn’t a 200k to pay in that case.
So just to expand upon the article author’s one possible future of it being overwhelming which he briefly glosses over, please enjoy this animated reading of one of my favourite graphic novels: Transmetropolitan
Here’s a link to the article in the screenshot, in case anyone else was interested in reading it like I was: https://www.freethink.com/futurology/cryogenically-frozen-humans
Thanks for this. Quite gruesome, but not at all unexpected. I remember having a conversation with a friend of mine a while back, where I made the argument that water expands when frozen and, since humans are mostly water, freezing a human would crack every vital organ. I’m actually upset to discover I was right.
This is true, which is why preservation does not involve freezing, except for the bad attempts in the 70s the article talks about, which could never work. The bodies are vitrified, not frozen.
Which still doesn’t mean it will work, the technology to revive them doesn’t exist, but it doesn’t have any freezing issue.
It’s fine, as long as the temperature stays stable and no further damage is done. We’re not going to revive their flesh. Instead we’re going to chop them off in large chunks. Suspend them in a kind of agar. Then laser off 2nanometer at a time. Scan the surface with 1nm resolution PiFM or better method. That’s going to yield many terabytes of image data that you can turms into a neural map of the entire nervous system. Even mapping this data to today’s LLM would get something roughly able to speak like the corpse. The better this data processing gets the more real the resurrected sentiences will be.
This sounds pretty amazing. Do you have any sources (or process names that I can search)? I would love to read more into the LLM part of your statement. Seriously sounds like scifi, and I’m loving it.
Visible human project for the 1993 first experiment 2013 slice culture modeling of central nervous system 2019 visible human body slice segmentation method 2022 scalable mapping of myelin and neuron density inthe human brain with micrometer resolution
In fiction We are legion, we are Bob Fun book but novice writer
Probably covered by futurist youtuber isaac arthur, probably part of the mind upload episode
I’m familiar with some of those, but they don’t digitally map thought and then read that map. At least not the last time I looked into them… Do they now?
Here is something close to tge cutting edge. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSG3_JvnCkU
What they are creating is a connectome. A list of all neurons and their connection.
They are down to 34nm slices.
I said 2nm because the smallest features are 5nm inside the gap between neurons called synapses.
Presumably, there are no features enconding information smaller than that in the brain.
But just the connectome might be enough to replicate a consciousness.
Very interesting! Maybe once we understand the structure, we can recreate what’s behind the structure. Not sure if that’s a good thing, but it certainly is intriguing.
there could be a way maybe, by freezing water while keeping it extremely pressurized (extremely), you can make “efficient ice” that occupies less space, called ice VII, I’m not kidding. It would cost literally billions of dollars so not yet feasible, but it keeps my sci-fi loving mind at ease.
Flash freezing can work, but it’s almost impossible for something as large as a human body.
Is it an expensive thing to do ? Can only rich people do it ? I want to buy freezers and sell people into being cryogenically frozen, but affordable
Aside from cost there’s also the issue of law, requiring people die of natural causes beforehand means most people will turn to soup before their brain can have any hope of being preserved.
I have cynicism for lots of things involved here, but if I had the option from some shady person who seems like they are capable and vaguely aligned with me I’d probably take the chance especially if we could make some sort of a post-revival agreement. What a brain (put into a small machine and ideally alongside symbiotic systems) can do for the people who are still alive. Probably with my brain in a jar living in VR until the details are worked out.
And if it doesn’t work out that way, well… That’s gooood soup!
Yes, it is expensive, as your freezer has to be set at temperatures below -80°C/-112°F, down to -196°C/-321°F, and maintained this way for decades without single interruption.
This requires expensive equipment and draws insane amounts of power, and also necessitates multiple power backups.
There is currently no way to do it on a budget.
Also there is currently a way to do it on a budget, see aforementioned article.
(basically you can do it with a life insurance plan of around 40 a month if you’re reasonably young).
There is currently no way to do it on a budget.>
Launch the capsule into space in an orbit around earth that’s always obscure from the sun?
Not a “budget” option but definitely a hell lot cheaper in the long run (decades, or even centuries).
Even better, just incinerate the them and tell them they’ll be floating in space!
TIL things still get hot in space under direct sunlight. I always assumed space would be cold even in sunlight but apparently not.
anyway, I would think you could still be in a sunlit orbit as long as you had a reflective shield for shading. You’ll probably still need power to maintain temps and monitor status, so solar energy would still be helpful.
Fun fact! During the Apollo flights to and from the Moon, the spacecraft would perform “Passive Thermal Control” or “barbecue roll” where it would rotate around its long axis about once per hour, to distribute the thermal load from the sun and keep one side from heating up too much
Is there such an orbit? That should be an orbit with a period of 1 year, which is far outside Earth’s sphere of gravitational influence.
You could just attach their frozen heads to the dark side of the Webb telescope if they can afford it!
Imagine an operation to retrieve those heads
Yup! Larange point 2, where we parked the JWST!
If you read the article that explains it this is incorrect. Once it’s set up it requires no power, only liquid nitrogen. So it’s black out proof too.
You’re not ‘frozen’ you’re ‘vitrified’, the main difference being your cells don’t get damaged (as much)
Reminds me of the Egyptian aristocracy, they would be pissed off if they knew their 4000 yo mummy will end up getting shown at a museum or destroyed by a tomb raider. But what would happen if they managed to revive them today, probably a temporary experiment on a lab, the pharaoh just lived in a closed environment for a couple of months and for most of modern day people it would be just some science news they scrolled by on tiktok
destroyed by a tomb raider
And not even a sexy, big breasted one with skintight shirt and very short shorts.
Reminds me of the time when I was younger, scrolling rotten.com and came across that picture of the dude who died in the bath, but had this thing that kept the water warm, so he just turned into a giant human stew.
What do you call a guy with no arms and no legs taking a bath?
Bob.
What if they’re nailed to the wall?
Art
Ok but what if they’re laying on your doorstep?
Matt
What do call their dog with no legs?
Hee hee it dont matter cuz he won’t come when you call him!
(I really love these jokes)
What about a woman with one leg and a speech impediment?
Is that what Walt Gisnep is right now?
Disney will soon announce the new movie Soup in an attempt to take over the top search results of “Disney Soup”.
Gisnep
Is this a thing I’m not aware of, or just a very strange typo?
Clearly says Walt Gisnep.
I’ll give you the p, but in which world is that a G?
Rich people are truly fucking insane.
Everybody’s insane rich people just have the ability to act on it.
